12 dead, 31 injured in Fort Hood shooting - Page 29 - U.S. Politics Online: A Political Discussion Forum

fishjoel · #**421** (**permalink**) 11-07-2009

Quote:

Originally Posted by John Drake

OK, I got one question for all the bigots and haters in the last 26 or so pages of the most disgracefully vile vomitus of pure hatred and unabashed bigotry ever to besmirch the memories of 13 innocent people I've seen anywhere. Most of you people, with some glaring and nice exceptions that I hereby apologize to, would do StormFront proud.

My question, though, is WHAT DO YOU GUYS WANT TO DO? Steve, should we just politely ask all the brave muslims who have put their lives on the line for all of us over the past several years to resign from the military because, "no military will ever trust them again." Well, what about us civilians? I know whenever I see a scarf in a shopping center again my concealed weapon is certainly going to be ready.

And if they can't function in society, well hey, those camps out West, aren't some of them still around? And since the Vegans arent eating them any more don't we have lots of empty cattle cars just sitting idle?

But look, we're in he middle of a depression. How can we be expected to feed several millions held in enforced nonproductiviity. Hell, we don't even like to take care of our OWN sick people.

And this is WAR, after all. Who cares if they're good citizens who've paid their taxes, obeyed the law and even shed their blood for us. Who cares if they're just little kids for that matter It's "solely a cause of the religion" right Steve? It's in the religion, it's in the BLOOD.

Dauchau, Auschwitz, Belsen-belsen, Arcadia, Fresno, Parker Dam. Is this the proud list you're proposing we hand down to our children?

And anyone who wants to answer my above question PLEASE JUST ANSWER IT. I KNOW the scenario I'm putting up here is hyperbole, but it's also the ONLY logical extenion of most what I hear you saying. Given what I see being seriously proposed here what is your "Final Solution"? What DO you want to do with all the muslims?

I don't think there is anything we need to do differently. But you still call a spade a spade. Like I stated before, there is an Arab Muslim in my company that is going to watch my two girls for me so me and the wife can have a night together and I don't fear for their safety at all. There are many good qualities about Arabs that don't get mentioned. They are a very generous people and I've experienced it on a personal level. They can be really loyal as well, even unto their death. There are also many bad attributes, as well. They have very long memories and forgiving and forgetting is not part of the culture. There is also a lot of violence that is simply excepted as how things are done.

One of my Arab instructors told me about a girl from his village that talked to an Israeli boy and they took her up into the mountains and "threw stones around her till she died". He said it very matter of factly, like it was no big deal.

John Drake · #**422** (**permalink**) 11-07-2009

Quote:

Originally Posted by Imperator

care to name names? aside from steve? or is this just the usual smoke?

Too many to go into, and why does it matter? Stop evading the question.

fishjoel · #**423** (**permalink**) 11-07-2009

Quote:

Originally Posted by John Drake

Too many to go into, and why does it matter? Stop evading the question.

It was answered, you didn't like what I put in there? Wasn't radical or bigoted enough? I mean, I am currently wearing the uniform so I would think my words would be pertinent.

Steve · #**424** (**permalink**) 11-07-2009

Quote:

Originally Posted by John Drake

OK, I got one question for all the bigots and haters in the last 26 or so pages of the most disgracefully vile vomitus of pure hatred and unabashed bigotry ever to besmirch the memories of 13 innocent people I've seen anywhere. Most of you people, with some glaring and nice exceptions that I hereby apologize to, would do StormFront proud.

My question, though, is WHAT DO YOU GUYS WANT TO DO? Steve, should we just politely ask all the brave muslims who have put their lives on the line for all of us over the past several years to resign from the military because, "no military will ever trust them again." Well, what about us civilians? I know whenever I see a scarf in a shopping center again my concealed weapon is certainly going to be ready.

And if they can't function in society, well hey, those camps out West, aren't some of them still around? And since the Vegans arent eating them any more don't we have lots of empty cattle cars just sitting idle?

But look, we're in he middle of a depression. How can we be expected to feed several millions held in enforced nonproductiviity. Hell, we don't even like to take care of our OWN people when they're sick.

And this is WAR, after all. Who cares if they're good citizens who've paid their taxes, obeyed the law and even shed their blood for us. Who cares if they're just little kids for that matter It's "probably a cause of the religion" right Steve? It's in the religion, it's in the BLOOD.

Dauchau, Auschwitz, Belsen-belsen, Arcadia, Fresno, Parker Dam. Is this the proud list you're proposing we hand down to our children?

And anyone who wants to answer my above question PLEASE JUST ANSWER IT. I KNOW the scenario I'm putting up here is hyperbole, but it's also the ONLY logical extenion of most what I hear you saying. Given what I see being seriously proposed here what is your "Final Solution"? What DO you want to do with all the muslims?

When was the last time a Christian committed murder because he was a Christian?

I have no idea.

When was the last time a muslim committed murder because he was a muslim?

That would be Thursday.

I don't know what the answers are, but I know we shouldn't decide to ignore the issue for fear of offending someone who's a muslim. Seriously, fuck them. When an imam can't even condemn a muslim for gunning down over three dozen people, there's a very real fucking problem.

You want to make an issue of my comment regarding asking muslims to resign. I stand by that. As someone who's worn the uniform, and has supervised a division of almost 200 people, I stand by that statement.

Whether the trust concerns are legitimate or not is of no consequence. The fact of the matter is that muslims will be viewed with suspicion by their fellow soldiers. That will happen. And why will it happen? Well, because muslims aren't able to condemn fellow muslims, regardless of how heinous an act they commit...

John Drake · #**425** (**permalink**) 11-07-2009

Your last post? All it said was "call a spade a spade". That could mean most anything, could you be more specific?

John Drake · #**426** (**permalink**) 11-07-2009

Quote:

Originally Posted by Steve

When was the last time a Christian committed murder because he was a Christian?

I have no idea.

When was the last time a muslim committed murder because he was a muslim?

That would be Thursday.

I don't know what the answers are, but I know we shouldn't decide to ignore the issue for fear of offending someone who's a muslim. Seriously, fuck them. When an imam can't even condemn a muslim for gunning down over three dozen people, there's a very real fucking problem.

You want to make an issue of my comment regarding asking muslims to resign. I stand by that. As someone who's worn the uniform, and has supervised a division of almost 200 people, I stand by that statement.

Whether the trust concerns are legitimate or not is of no consequence. The fact of the matter is that muslims will be viewed with suspicion by their fellow soldiers. That will happen. And why will it happen? Well, because muslims aren't able to condemn fellow muslims, regardless of how heinous an act they commit...

Steve, you are certainly right to be on a politicial board because you evade a direct question better than Osama bin Laden would evade the Mossad Headquarters. I didn't ask whether you stood by your vile suggetion that all muslims should be thrown out of the military because one nut who killed 13 people happened to be muslim as well as being obviously batshit crazy. I asked what you think we ought to do with all the millions of muslims who exist in this country already

Steve · #**427** (**permalink**) 11-07-2009

Quote:

Originally Posted by John Drake

Steve, you are certainly right to be on a politicial board because you evade a direct question better than Osama bin Laden would evade the Mossad Headquarters. I didn't ask whether you stood by your vile suggetion that all muslims should be thrown out of the military because one nut who killed 13 people happened to be muslim as well as being obviously batshit crazy. I asked what you think we ought to do with all the millions of muslims who exist in this country already

I evaded nothing.

I think the problem here is your propensity to ignore that which you don't want to know.

Go back to my post and find this line. Since you missed it the first time, I've increased the font size in the likely ill-placed hope that you might actually be able to see it this time:

I don't know what the answers are, but I know we shouldn't decide to ignore the issue for fear of offending someone who's a muslim.

Glad I could clear that up for you.

People like you don't want to do a thing because you're afraid of offending muslims.

I couldn't give a fuck about offending them.

Now that I've answered your question (again), let me ask you:

If, in fact, muslims are good people, and if their religion is, in fact, a peaceful one, do you think it's acceptable for the imam of Hasan's mosque to refuse to "condemn a fellow muslim" who killed 13 people?

CYDdharta · #**428** (**permalink**) 11-07-2009

Quote:

Originally Posted by John Drake

And if they can't function in society, well hey, those camps out West, aren't some of them still around? And since the Vegans arent eating them any more don't we have lots of empty cattle cars just sitting idle?

But look, we're in he middle of a depression. How can we be expected to feed several millions held in enforced nonproductiviity. Hell, we don't even like to take care of our OWN people when they're sick.

And this is WAR, after all. Who cares if they're good citizens who've paid their taxes, obeyed the law and even shed their blood for us. Who cares if they're just little kids for that matter It's "probably a cause of the religion" right Steve? It's in the religion, it's in the BLOOD.

Sounds like you think FDR is back in office. Oh, wait; Obama has been called the new FDR...

Steve · #**429** (**permalink**) 11-07-2009

Quote:

Originally Posted by John Drake

It's in the religion, it's in the BLOOD.

And I should also mention that I was unaware that I was conversing with someone who seems to believe that religion is genetic...

CSA · #**430** (**permalink**) 11-07-2009

Quote:

Originally Posted by Porras

Well, now. That was delightfully offensive.

and very much true.

CSA · #**431** (**permalink**) 11-07-2009

Quote:

Originally Posted by John Drake

And yours the epitome of a mean queen.

Not Christ, mind you, the real founder of Christianity, St Paul. You want some examples of a guy who literally HATED women try reading some of the Epistles.

Perhaps you dont know me, but I follow NO religeon.

Tim · #**432** (**permalink**) 11-07-2009

Hmmm.....It's a shame CSA's thread was moved here where it will get mixed into the very, very long conversation. It actually addresses a different issue as well that is quite interesting.

But as I well know, it is not for the unwashed Hoi Polloi to question why.....

fishjoel · #**433** (**permalink**) 11-07-2009

Quote:

Originally Posted by John Drake

Your last post? All it said was "call a spade a spade". That could mean most anything, could you be more specific?

Meaning that this guy did it for religious reasoning, just like it seems to appear. Saying that doesn't mean that you are condemning all Muslims to the same behavior. But this Muslim can be.

John Drake · #**434** (**permalink**) 11-07-2009

Quote:

Originally Posted by Steve

I evaded nothing.

I think the problem here is your propensity to ignore that which you don't want to know.

Go back to my post and find this line. Since you missed it the first time, I've increased the font size in the likely ill-placed hope that you might actually be able to see it this time:

I don't know what the answers are, but I know we shouldn't decide to ignore the issue for fear of offending someone who's a muslim.

Glad I could clear that up for you.

People like you don't want to do a thing because you're afraid of offending muslims.

I couldn't give a fuck about offending them.

Now that I've answered your question (again), let me ask you:

If, in fact, muslims are good people, and if their religion is, in fact, a peaceful one, do you think it's acceptable for the imam of Hasan's mosque to refuse to "condemn a fellow muslim" who killed 13 people?

No, defiinitely not. In fact, I think he should be investigated and if it can be proven he egged this guy on he should be charged with conspriracy.

That (if it doesn't turn out to be a poor old man as shocked as the rest of us trying not condemn someone he knew and trusted out of turn before he's even sure what happened) makes TWO (2) muslims who this incident shows might have provably murderous intentions to the rest of us

Now, let's continue with my question. I'll rephrase it slightly as it seems you're missing my point. If noone in the military can trust anyone who is muslim anymore, why do you expect we civilians to trust them either? And what should we do about it? The only answer I can come to seems both obvious as hell and too terrible to contemplate, and not because I'm afraid of offending muslims, but because I'm afraid of offending humanity.