It's safe to say that all Haitain officials involved in this matter are corrupt. It is also safe to say, that it is likely the rest are as well.

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The bush administration and bank lobbyists proudly killing our economic system - 2003.

Ad hominem much?

I list facts and you label me as one who makes "gross generalizations."




You ask, "where did she go wrong?"

10 Americans charged in Haiti with kidnapping - Yahoo! News

You can see here that Laura Silsby lied about where the children came from.


10 Americans charged in Haiti with kidnapping - Yahoo! News

She knew that she did not have the proper paperwork. Which means she was knowingly moving in violation Haitian law.

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20100206/...icans_detained

She was warned beforehand that she would be considered a child trafficker without the proper paperwork which she then failed to obtain.
This not only implicates herself from a legal standpoint, but those who trusted her as their leader.

Laura Silsby, a local missionary to Haiti, left trail of financial woes in Idaho | Local News | Idaho Statesman

She has a history of law breaking in the United States and she went to Haiti and broke the law.

She has court dates in the United States which she is unlikely to be able to comply with as she is in a Haiti jail for breaking their laws.

Is that enough "where she went wrong" for for you?

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"Justice is the first virtue of social institutions, as truth is of systems of thought." - John Rawls

"Those who will not reason, are bigots, those who cannot, are fools, and those who dare not, are slaves. " - Lord Byron

"Knowledge makes men gentle, and reason inclines toward humanity; only prejudices cause these to be renounced." - Montesquieu

It may be suitable for child trafficking.

Idaho Baptist Adoption Suspects Planned to ‘Gather’ 100 Haitian Orphans, Cross Border | ChattahBox News Blog

You can see that the group appears to lack the financial resources to do what they were promising. And they did not plan on spending the time to actually take care of those children.

No early release for US missionaries in Haiti - Yahoo! News

This group is not there under an established mission effort by their church and church leaders can't vouch for the motives of the group.

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"Justice is the first virtue of social institutions, as truth is of systems of thought." - John Rawls

"Those who will not reason, are bigots, those who cannot, are fools, and those who dare not, are slaves. " - Lord Byron

"Knowledge makes men gentle, and reason inclines toward humanity; only prejudices cause these to be renounced." - Montesquieu

Hot damn, we agree on something. I realize that there are probably Haitian officials that aren't corrupt but I do believe it's pervasive enough to generalize. Additionally, in many third world countries they don't consider it corrupt. That's just how things are done.

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A government which robs Peter to pay Paul can always depend on the support of Paul.
- George Bernard Shaw

There is further development in this story.

Haiti: lawyer representing US missionaries sacked - Telegraph

The lawyer representing the "missionaries" has been removed.

..and eight of the ten "missionaries" signed a note which was passed to a television producer.

__________________
"Justice is the first virtue of social institutions, as truth is of systems of thought." - John Rawls

"Those who will not reason, are bigots, those who cannot, are fools, and those who dare not, are slaves. " - Lord Byron

"Knowledge makes men gentle, and reason inclines toward humanity; only prejudices cause these to be renounced." - Montesquieu

Lawyers...

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January 21, 2013: The End of an ERROR.

"Only a virtuous people are capable of freedom. As nations become more corrupt and vicious, they have more need of masters."
"When the people find that they can vote themselves money, that will herald the end of the republic."
"The Constitution only gives people the right to pursue happiness. You have to catch it yourself."
---Benjamin Franklin

a. How many children with parents did she choose? A lot, or a few to be trotted out for the guards and then the cameras. And if she's been working with orphans why did she suddenly start working with parented children anyhow? Wasn't she familiar who to refer parented children to? And yes, there is no doubt a surplus of orphans on Haiti now so why DID she suddenly acquire some known parented children, again, maybe so the parents could vouch for her if she was caught? especially by border guards who are going to be watchful for just this thing. Yeh, I got a suspicious mind, fleeing fugitives suddenly showing up with a milllion bucks worth of prime child flesh affects me that way.

Criminals don't have guide books, they fuck up, that's why they get caught.

Uh...what does it TAKE to indicate to you that she may be a human trafficker? If she's wearing a cutaway leather habit and calling herself Sister Pain with the childen on leashes do you just assume she's from the Order of Sufferers for de Sade?

She's a known and sought fugitive following a standard and well known pattern of organized illegal misconduct. INAJB I think I have more than enough for a prima facie case, and yeh, I do get the warm fuzzies from putting away child slavers, especially when they say they're acting "in the name of Ga-Hawd"

1. SOP for any com man in the field. Easy as pie to get into a Church group, (watch Elmer Gantry , which was partially based on reality, one time) and lends great credibility all round. Also best place to flee to, police aren't going to be looking for fugitives when they're pulling people out of rubble.

2. Why should I get a hovel? I like to live well and again, it lends credibilty. How does it look if I put 4 year olds in lean tos?

3. Given the circumstances getting orphaned children should be easy, fooling the parents of a few I collect for credibility purposes shoud be no harder than fooling anyone else I have so far.

4. Why not? Given the confusion that no doubt existed then, why shouldn't I try to be as legal as I can? In fact here's a good test, if it's easy to get the paperwork the scheme is good. If it's not, you just disappear.

5. Probabaly exactly her thought, but the guards were watching out for this as they should have been. I know this will surprise the shit out of most of you guys since they're not only furriners but also "Caribbeans", but a lot of the police in these areas actually do very good jobs.

Look, I repeat, a year ago this woman was doing the reversed brother of the scheme where she 's sending you letters saying the Ministier of Money from Nigeria had ten mill for you in cardboard boxes if you would just wire him your credit card numbers. Now she's caught smuggling nubile 4 year olds across the border and she's a selfless foster mother?? WTF is WRONG with you people????

When I was a child, I understood as a child and spake as a child. When I became a man, I put away childish things." (1 Corinthians 13:11

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Alizee Jacotay, the reason god invented hips

IT'S ON YOUTUBE, IT MUST BE TRUE

Well, actual Baptist organizations are taking the cautious route. Her own church in Idaho seems to be distancing itself from her.

Haiti Baptist Missionary Silsby's sinking Idaho ship - Akopsa - Open Salon

Laura Silsby, Missionary Leader, To Blame For Haiti Kidnap Case, Lawyer Says

And the Southern Baptist Convention while not completely disowning her has not made it clear they didn't send her there:


(I wonder what kind of dirt we could dig up on Steerpike if we tried?! )

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I don't know about Steerpike but I was turned down as a Tontoun Macoute once, seems they wanted people who could MAKE zombies through judicious drug application, not BECOME one

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Alizee Jacotay, the reason god invented hips

IT'S ON YOUTUBE, IT MUST BE TRUE

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[QUOTE=Steerpike;1628539]Ad hominem much?

I list facts and you label me as one who makes "gross generalizations." [QUOTE]
You have not listed facts, but newspaper accounts. Newpaper accounts do not reflect all evidence of a case. And using such you have already presumed a guilty verdict before any official trial has set.

You also have to include the man who proclaimed himself as a police officer who would get her the paperwork through. By adding this, intent becomes less credible unless you can prove conspiracy between the two. None of the news reports you provided has even contemplated the conspiracy charge with a Haitain individual.

Finally, her past does not represent her culpability in this specific crime per se. By using it and thus condemning her shows your logical fallacies are rampant. Furthermore, I asked a question whether the dates were still open. Just listing them does not reflect in any way her guilt or innocense in this case.


I really should ask you the same question In either case, she has not been found guilty or innocent of such crimes Steelpike and those trials can be continued given the circumstances. She was not fleeing the court since no such order to turn in her passport was given and no info on restriction of flight was also given.

They are newspaper accounts of facts which do not qualify as "gross generalizations."

Red herring much?


As far as the alleged police officer goes, the fact is she did not have the proper paperwork.

Nor did I say her past makes her guilty here, only that it fits a pattern, which it does. Your saying about me that, " By using it and thus condemning her" makes you guilty of strawman.

She was already guilty of breaking some laws in Idaho. Did you even read the article?


Just because there was no court order to turn over her passport does not mean she could not have fled. It only means she was not considered a flight risk.

__________________
"Justice is the first virtue of social institutions, as truth is of systems of thought." - John Rawls

"Those who will not reason, are bigots, those who cannot, are fools, and those who dare not, are slaves. " - Lord Byron

"Knowledge makes men gentle, and reason inclines toward humanity; only prejudices cause these to be renounced." - Montesquieu

[QUOTE=Hudson;1629420][QUOTE=Steerpike;1628539]Ad hominem much?

I list facts and you label me as one who makes "gross generalizations." True, true and true. But we are not attempting to try the woman here. We are establishing a prima facie (on the face of it) case against her. As I understand it the rules of evidence there are much relaxed, if existent at all in some instances.

Look, if this was Sister Mary Immaculata, fresh from standing down Tuareg raiders in Darfur that would be one thing, but she's got a court date for conning people whose only moral failing is they're becoming desperate to make a living. It''s like you want to let off the guys who used to "deliver" expensive bibles to recently bereaved widows whose husbands had never really ordered them because, in the end, they're doing gods's work.

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Alizee Jacotay, the reason god invented hips

IT'S ON YOUTUBE, IT MUST BE TRUE

I didn't read the whole topic but if they didn't have the proper paperwork they fucked up.

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"We've been looking for the enemy for some time now. We've finally found him. We're surrounded. That simplifies things."

“They paid the highest price that a soldier can pay. I bow before you. Germany bows before you.”

There is more:

Imprisoned Idahoans Heading Back To Court - KIVITV.COM | Boise. News, Breaking News, Weather and Sports-

__________________
"Justice is the first virtue of social institutions, as truth is of systems of thought." - John Rawls

"Those who will not reason, are bigots, those who cannot, are fools, and those who dare not, are slaves. " - Lord Byron

"Knowledge makes men gentle, and reason inclines toward humanity; only prejudices cause these to be renounced." - Montesquieu