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  #1 (permalink)  
Old 02-11-2007
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Is it possible to Build a city on the moon?

I think we should build a city on the moon like a University for scientist to study space and other experments.And it would be an ideal for military scientist to develop top secret weapons so other nations wont know about it

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Old 02-11-2007
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Re: Is it possible to Build a city on the moon?

Quote:
Originally Posted by steveox View Post
I think we should build a city on the moon like a University for scientist to study space and other experments.And it would be an ideal for military scientist to develop top secret weapons so other nations wont know about it

Somebody´s been watching Star Trek reruns...

Oh, and by all means, let´s put weapons in space! There´s isn´t enough conflict near the ground level already...
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Old 02-11-2007
emptypepsi's Avatar
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Re: Is it possible to Build a city on the moon?

Posts like this are the reason people don't see the good reasons for space colonization. They believe people such as steve will take this warring BS with us into space.
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Old 02-12-2007
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Re: Is it possible to Build a city on the moon?

Greetings and Felicitations,

Quote:
Originally Posted by Maddox View Post
Somebody´s been watching Star Trek reruns...

Oh, and by all means, let´s put weapons in space! There´s isn´t enough conflict near the ground level already...

There is actually a treaty against such uses.

Quote:
The 1967 Outer Space Treaty

The Outer Space Treaty entered into effect in October 1967. It is the second "nonarmament" treaty (the first being the Antarctic Treaty of 1961). There is no expiration date.

The first three articles of the treaty set general principles for the use of space; the rest of the articles are intended to guide the behavior of treaty parties.

Article I
The exploration and use of outer space, including the moon and other celestial bodies, shall be carried out for the benefit and in the interests of all countries, irrespective of their degree of economic or scientific development, and shall be the province of all mankind.

Outer space, including the moon and other celestial bodies, shall be free for exploration and use by all States without discrimination of any kind, on a basis of equality and in accordance with international law, and there shall be free access to all areas of celestial bodies.

There shall be freedom of scientific investigation in outer space, including the moon and other celestial bodies, and States shall facilitate and encourage international co-operation in such investigation.

Article II
Outer space, including the moon and other celestial bodies, is not subject to national appropriation by claim of sovereignty, by means of use or occupation, or by any other means.

Article III
States Parties to the Treaty shall carry on activities in the exploration and use of outer space, including the moon and other celestial bodies, in accordance with international law, including the Charter of the United Nations, in the interest of maintaining international peace and security and promoting international co-operation and understanding.

Article IV of the Outer Space Treaty prohibits placing in orbit around the earth any objects carrying nuclear weapons or any other kinds of weapons of mass destruction (WMD). It also prohibits the testing and the deployment of any kind of weapon on the moon or other celestial bodies.

Article IV
States Parties to the Treaty undertake not to place in orbit around the earth any objects carrying nuclear weapons or any other kinds of weapons of mass destruction, install such weapons on celestial bodies, or station such weapons in outer space in any other manner.

The moon and other celestial bodies shall be used by all States Parties to the Treaty exclusively for peaceful purposes. The establishment of military bases, installations and fortifications, the testing of any type of weapons and the conduct of military manoeuvres on celestial bodies shall be forbidden. The use of military personnel for scientific research or for any other peaceful purposes shall not be prohibited. The use of any equipment or facility necessary for peaceful exploration of the moon and other celestial bodies shall also not be prohibited.

While Article IV bans WMD from orbit, it does not prohibit missile-borne WMD from transiting space or weapons other than WMD being placed in space orbit and used to attack targets in space or on Earth. There is no ban on air-, ground-, or conventional space-based anti-satellite or anti-missile weapons.

Article VI touches on the important point that States Parties to the Treaty are responsible for the national activities carried out by corporations and any other non-governmental agencies of that nation. In the context of the potential weaponization of space, Article VI provides a legal context within which actions may be challenged if they are perceived by other States Parties to the Treaty as non-peaceful uses of space.

Articles VII and IX also present possibilities for legal action in connection with space weaponization.

Article VII makes treaty parties that launch objects into outer space liable for damage to the property of another treaty party; the procedure is spelled out in the Liability Convention of 1972. The Liability Convention foresees the establishment of a Claims Commission to determine the extent of liability for damage by the space objects of one country to the space objects or property of another state.

Article IX of the Outer Space Treaty provides for consultations if any treaty party believes an activity planned by another treaty party would cause "potentially harmful interference with activities in the peaceful exploration and use of outer space."
However, the United States refused to sign it even though Russia and China agreed. The entire article can be found here.

Sincerely Yours,
C. David Neely
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Old 02-12-2007
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Re: Is it possible to Build a city on the moon?

I mean its possible, it'd be expensive, but what would be the motivation behind it? I mean, if your going to live on the moon you need water and last I heard the chances of water weren't that good. Which means you have to haul it from earth, and since enough water would be too heavy to lift in on launch you'd have to make several trips. Either way it would be costly in human lives & money, and considering we've got one white elephant too much it isn't likely we'll ever be too overjoyed about any idea that involves lots and lots of money. Leave space to the robots, they're more suited for the harsh environments of space, especially since we design them so.
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Old 02-12-2007
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Re: Is it possible to Build a city on the moon?

we can't even get the Hubble Telescope to work...
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  #7 (permalink)  
Old 02-12-2007
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Re: Is it possible to Build a city on the moon?

Greetings and Felicitations,

Quote:
Originally Posted by agoodfella View Post
we can't even get the Hubble Telescope to work...
I don't think this is true. The Hubble worked fine. The telescope suffered from politics, not design. because people in power decided the telescope wasn't valuable enough to maintain and let it come to ruin.

Eventually, we will settle the moon and farther out. When this will occur is debatable but I think it will occur. I just think that the colonies will speak Chinese.

Sincerely Yours,
C. David Neely
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  #8 (permalink)  
Old 02-12-2007
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Re: Is it possible to Build a city on the moon?

Historically, treaties about unexplored areas have been worth slightly more than their weight in toilet paper. And about as useful and binding.

I have no idea why people are talking about the HST in the past tense. While the main camera stopped working about 2 weeks ago, it was due to be replaced in an upcoming 2008 mission. After this mission, the Hubble should be useful until 2013, 2 years after Hubble's successor is planned to be launched.

Spaceflight Now | Breaking News | Hubble's main camera stops working

Of wiser plan would be using near-earth objects like asteroids as bases, "cities" if you prefer. Since we're dreaming here, capture a nickel-iron asteroid, build some mining equipment, smelters, factories... industrialize the thing. Take other asteroids, hollow them out, and build cities on the inside wall. You can use many of the materials in the industrial asteroid to build the infrastructure in the "city" asteroid. And so on, building upon each success.

That is an undertaking of a massive sort, but starting a series of NEO colonies within 1,000 miles of the surface is actually more feasible in the long run than building a one-shot city 240,000 miles away.

IMHO, of course.
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  #9 (permalink)  
Old 02-12-2007
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Re: Is it possible to Build a city on the moon?

Quote:
Originally Posted by CDavidNeely View Post
Greetings and Felicitations,



I don't think this is true. The Hubble worked fine. The telescope suffered from politics, not design. because people in power decided the telescope wasn't valuable enough to maintain and let it come to ruin.

Eventually, we will settle the moon and farther out. When this will occur is debatable but I think it will occur. I just think that the colonies will speak Chinese.

Sincerely Yours,
C. David Neely
You are missing the point of me bringing up the Hubble Telescope. If we can't manage to keep a telescope working - how do you expect there will be enough capital (political, monetary or otherwise) to get a Moon colony going?

This is more brutal reality more than it is flat out cynicism.
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  #10 (permalink)  
Old 02-13-2007
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Bob (No, not like in the water. It's my name.)

 
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Re: Is it possible to Build a city on the moon?

Actually there already modifying former shuttle launch pad 39-A and will be tearing down 39-B (As soon as they retire the shuttle next year.) for a new twin spacecraft called AERS for that very reason.
I won a desk build bid on the ARES Constellation class twin launch vehicle and Lunar conveyer (A multi-passenger SUV kinda thingy.) for NASA last year.
(Go to: NASA - NASA's Future: The Vision for Space Exploration And click on Moon Mars and beyond video.)
A guy in my group who built the Voyager model in Star Trek the motion picture won the engineering model design:




Here’s one of my builds that won 4 desk bids at NASA:



It uses the same SPB’s (Solid propellant boosters.) as the shuttle (Gives you an idea of the size.). Both launch vehicles are on pads at the same time and launch 37 minutes apart. The paper work is all done on these and the prototypes are being modified as we speak.
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  #11 (permalink)  
Old 02-14-2007
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Re: Is it possible to Build a city on the moon?

Eventually there will be colonization of the moon. But it wont be economically or technologically viable for quite some time. A very, very long time.
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  #12 (permalink)  
Old 02-14-2007
Speedyer's Avatar
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Re: Is it possible to Build a city on the moon?

Quote:
Originally Posted by agoodfella View Post
You are missing the point of me bringing up the Hubble Telescope. If we can't manage to keep a telescope working - how do you expect there will be enough capital (political, monetary or otherwise) to get a Moon colony going?

This is more brutal reality more than it is flat out cynicism.
That why the only way it'll ever happen is if its either privately funded, becomes cheap enough that politicians wont squabble over it, or maybe when China decides it wants to one-up the USA. Still, thats just getting it going, keeping it going is another thing all together. I mean this is space we're talking about, a hostile environment for humans and until otherwise I don't see any reason of putting a colony on the moon. Where we going to go, earth is the most habitable piece of real estate in this solar system and possibly beyond.
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  #13 (permalink)  
Old 02-16-2007
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Re: Is it possible to Build a city on the moon?

maybe in the not so far future there may end up having a space station on the moon. posibly for mining of minerals....tomc
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  #14 (permalink)  
Old 02-18-2007
Hank's Avatar
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Bob (No, not like in the water. It's my name.)

 
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Re: Is it possible to Build a city on the moon?

Quote:
Originally Posted by agoodfella View Post
we can't even get the Hubble Telescope to work...
Yea, it’s a shame NASA faked 725,000 photos from interplanetary to inter galactic space.



You can see the string holding up the center of this spiral galaxy 700,000,000,000 parsecs away.
Some chick working in a mechanical field “because she’s a chick and not someone with mechanical aptitude” placing washers under a face plate instead of on top is hardly a reason to stop the space program…
Where Americans, we sent a repairman.
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Old 02-18-2007
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Re: Is it possible to Build a city on the moon?

Quote:
Originally Posted by steveox View Post
I think we should build a city on the moon like a University for scientist to study space and other experments.And it would be an ideal for military scientist to develop top secret weapons so other nations wont know about it

Of all the garbage idiotic Ideas fo building a station on the moon. Don't you realize that any such undertaking would be at th behest of all reasonably large and affluent nations on earth? So who would it be secret from???

GET REAL. Someone said you are a child. there is nothing wrong with being a child, but if so, admit it so we don't expect mature reasoning from you.
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