Is this an argument that you expect to "win"?

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Obama's New "57 State Patriotic Pin":




Sayeth John Drake - 10/13/08: "OK, you're right, I admit to LYING"

The reason "because it's hard" was one line from a speech given from the bully pulpit.

It's hardly a comprehansive and detailed explanation of whay NASA carried out the Apollo Program and was never meant to be.

It was simply designed to rally public support, and sometimes that's easier to do by framing something in terms of overcoming adversity, persisting against the odds, and ultimately coming together to get the job done.

If Kennedy had gotten up on that platform and started talking about the scientific benefits of lunar field geology, experimentation into solar wind composition by foil entrapment, and laser ranging retroreflectors, and how better understanding all of those things would help us to better understand the natural world, his audience would never have been motivated and likely would have fallen asleep - asuming of course that he could even make heads or tails out of the things he was talking about.

You're making a mountain out of a molehill.

If you really want to know why the Apollo Program was pursued then read up on the program and its goals.

Don't place the weight of the space program in the hands of a man who really ammounted to little more than its talking head.

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...Old Europe, a once-dominant region now reduced to sucking at the geopolitical teat of America... they spent the better part of the last millennium conquering the world and taking the good stuff home with them... And what do they get for their troubles? Ungrateful colonies demanding their independence. And after you taught them how to play cricket!...

-Jon Stewart

If that is the only reason for going to the moon (that it is hard), then yes, I'd say it would be smooth sailing for me.

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If a neocon whines about big government wealth redistribution, just ask him what he thinks about the portion of that big government that sends aid to Israel.

Well, those of us who aren't idiots can see right through that bullshit.So far, the reasons I got from the other posters amounted to accidentally discovering other things while performing the research and "beating the Soviets."

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If a neocon whines about big government wealth redistribution, just ask him what he thinks about the portion of that big government that sends aid to Israel.

See my post (#77) above.

I agree with you that "because it's hard" isn't an adequate reason to invest the money in, or mitigate the danger of, flying human beings to the freakin' Moon.

Fortunately, it wasn't "the" reason. It wasn't even really one of the reasons.

It just sounded good.

For every one person like you who said to himself "hmmm, that's a pretty shitty reason", there were 100,000 others who got behind the program, and accepted a lot of initial failure, simply because it was something we were doing "because it was hard"!!!

Sometimes the buttons that get pushed to rally popular support for a cause aren't necessarially related in any material way to the task for which support is being rallied.

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...Old Europe, a once-dominant region now reduced to sucking at the geopolitical teat of America... they spent the better part of the last millennium conquering the world and taking the good stuff home with them... And what do they get for their troubles? Ungrateful colonies demanding their independence. And after you taught them how to play cricket!...

-Jon Stewart

And therein lies the idiocy of your entire argument here.

You don't care about the topic, you only care about "winning". What does "winning", especially a debate on a topic like this, get you?

Really, it's pretty fuckin' stupid.

See, here's the deal, whether you think it should've been done or not is inconsequential. Thankfully there were people, far smarter than you, who deemed it a worthy endeavor. They, too, would dismiss you as people here have done...

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Obama's New "57 State Patriotic Pin":




Sayeth John Drake - 10/13/08: "OK, you're right, I admit to LYING"

Now you've done it. Now Slon's going to want to argue whether or not Kennedy should've made that speech...

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Obama's New "57 State Patriotic Pin":




Sayeth John Drake - 10/13/08: "OK, you're right, I admit to LYING"

Uh, yes I do. That is why I am posting on-topic, whereas you are posting ad hominem.What does that have to do with the topic? Nothing, apparently. So get lost.What is your point again?Actually, Steve, I'm having a pretty good debate with many here, not including you, obviously. Why don't you find another thread to troll? I mean, you've already told us that what I think is inconsequential. Thus, wouldn't it make sense to stop replying to me? Or are you just looking for attention?

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If a neocon whines about big government wealth redistribution, just ask him what he thinks about the portion of that big government that sends aid to Israel.

Yeah, I read the thread.

That's why I answered you.

Beating the Soviets was immaterial.

They were going and we were going. Someone was going to get there first and someone second (as fate would have it they never got there but that wasn't a consideration at the time).

Either way we were both investing in a space program.

We saw, and are still seeing, a hell of a lot of technology coming out of the space program that we maybe wouldn't have had if we hadn't run the program. But that isn't a "reason" for anything, it's just icing on the cake.

I guess if you had to distill everything down to a single factor then we went to the Moon for the same reason we've gone to the top of Everest, the bottom of the sea, the middle of the darkest jungles, and anywhere and everywhere else man has ever gone - because it was there.

We're curious what's out there and how it might benefit or effect us.

The government funded the Apollo Program for the same reason it funds art - because there are some things that are just worth accomplishing. Maybe they'll turn out to have no practical benefit, but just doing them is valuable enough to a creature that doesn't really know what its purpose is.

So sure, we "really went to the moon" to place reflectors there that we could shoot lasers at to acurately measure it's distance from the Earth and to measure the composition of the solar wind, and to do a bunch of other neat scientific things. And as far as advancing our knowledge of the natural world goes, they were all reasonable experiments and they all provided knowledge we didn't have before.

But we also "really went to the Moon" because at some point two guys were sitting around having a beer and one of them said to the other, "you know what, it would be really fucking cool if we could put someone on that Moon up there".

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...Old Europe, a once-dominant region now reduced to sucking at the geopolitical teat of America... they spent the better part of the last millennium conquering the world and taking the good stuff home with them... And what do they get for their troubles? Ungrateful colonies demanding their independence. And after you taught them how to play cricket!...

-Jon Stewart

Deleted - double tap.

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...Old Europe, a once-dominant region now reduced to sucking at the geopolitical teat of America... they spent the better part of the last millennium conquering the world and taking the good stuff home with them... And what do they get for their troubles? Ungrateful colonies demanding their independence. And after you taught them how to play cricket!...

-Jon Stewart

So, because I don't care to discuss the topic with you, I shouldn't post at all?

Get over yourself, Slon, you're a long way from being that important...

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Obama's New "57 State Patriotic Pin":




Sayeth John Drake - 10/13/08: "OK, you're right, I admit to LYING"

Yes, the "local" part of the Galaxy was what I wrote and meant. There would be no need for a generation spaceship for colonizing Mars, for example.

We do not know, but I believe it is still worth several attempts. If humans would go to other star systems in one thousand generation starships, some will probably get lost on the way due to wars, general mismanagement of life support, or the like. If a hundred of them reach different star systems where there are planets to colonize, I would still say it would take an event of unfathomable proportions to extinguish the human race and the Earth life we bring. That, in itself, is reason enough for me.

Most of them will be, because it is in the genetically inherited interest of humans to survive.

I cannot see that happening. In every human civilization, there have always been people who have wanted to devote themselves to different tasks.

Well, we have to build large starships. One good idea is to rebuild asteroids into starships. All you have to do is put some powerful rocket engines in one end, boost your way past a gas giant or two to get extra speed, and dig out more of the asteroid as you go and the population grow.

Given the low birth rates in modern, developed societies, I see no risk for over-population. On the contrary, maybe there will be a need for making people get children, in the interest of genetic diversity.

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President Josiah Bartlet: Sweden has a 100% literacy rate. 100%! How do they do that?
Leo McGarry: Maybe they don't and they can't add.

Except for 1861-1865, of course... ...but I see your point.

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President Josiah Bartlet: Sweden has a 100% literacy rate. 100%! How do they do that?
Leo McGarry: Maybe they don't and they can't add.

I'm glad you admit to being a troll and someone who posts off-topic on purpose.Why are you still trolling, Steve?

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If a neocon whines about big government wealth redistribution, just ask him what he thinks about the portion of that big government that sends aid to Israel.

Wouldn't it be cheaper to take photographs or send probes instead? What exactly did we bring back from the moon that proved to be so useful?I think art should not be financed publicly unless it has practical purposes. If people want to do it, do it privately. I don't want funds wasted "just because they can be."And why did we need to do that again?Yeah, but is it useful knowledge?They should have financed it privately.

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If a neocon whines about big government wealth redistribution, just ask him what he thinks about the portion of that big government that sends aid to Israel.