Probably...

Or I am just glad that the entire ESA budget (or even more) has not to be spent on an aging renewable space launcher.

__________________
When the Nazis came for the communists I remained silent, I was no communist.
When the Nazis came for the Unionists I remained silent, I was no Unionist.
When the Nazis came for the Social Democrats I remained silent, I was no Social Democrat.
When the Nazis came for the Jews I remained silent, I was no Jew.
When the Nazis came for me, there was no one left who could protest.

Read something about a Hopper Shuttle. It should be a reusable shuttle launched with an electromagnetic rail. Of course, there's a distinct possibility it will be just like Hermes, or rather, that it will not be, just like Hermes.

Well, thats still not more than some vague R&D so far.
But if its pushed forward seriously, they better make sure that the reusable vehicle is cheaper than the traditional rocket flight.

__________________
When the Nazis came for the communists I remained silent, I was no communist.
When the Nazis came for the Unionists I remained silent, I was no Unionist.
When the Nazis came for the Social Democrats I remained silent, I was no Social Democrat.
When the Nazis came for the Jews I remained silent, I was no Jew.
When the Nazis came for me, there was no one left who could protest.

Eh. It's unlikely you can have a manned spacecraft that's cheaper than a rocket...But it's still a manned spacecraft, not a rocket.

You misunderstood me. What I tried to say is that a reusable manned spacecraft has to be cheaper than a non reuseable manned rocket. Otherwise its nothing else than a waste of money. The Space Shuttle is not as far as I know cheaper. Of course it has larger capacities though. But its questionable if that justifies the large costs..

ESA seems to have far cheaper potential options for launching astronauts into space than an European version of a Space Shuttle. Options that would base on existing or adopted rocket technology.

__________________
When the Nazis came for the communists I remained silent, I was no communist.
When the Nazis came for the Unionists I remained silent, I was no Unionist.
When the Nazis came for the Social Democrats I remained silent, I was no Social Democrat.
When the Nazis came for the Jews I remained silent, I was no Jew.
When the Nazis came for me, there was no one left who could protest.

I was joking, I got your point. However, the reason the ESA didn't actually have to develop a manned spacecraft was that NASA already had one, and was amenable to joint projects. There is no doubt that the Space Shuttle is outrageously expensive, but it does provide capabilities that cannot be matched with rockets. No ISS without Space Shuttle, for instance.

Of course you are correct, but its not like no other ISS would have been possible without the Space Shuttle. But the modules definitely would have to be designed in a different, rocket compatible way. Thats not impossible, just look at the Russian part of the station.

__________________
When the Nazis came for the communists I remained silent, I was no communist.
When the Nazis came for the Unionists I remained silent, I was no Unionist.
When the Nazis came for the Social Democrats I remained silent, I was no Social Democrat.
When the Nazis came for the Jews I remained silent, I was no Jew.
When the Nazis came for me, there was no one left who could protest.

I just don't want the ISS's only legacy to be the biggest and most expensive construction project in space (Again, as long as we've put so much money and effort into it, the least we can do it keep it operational once complete). That being said, while I disagree with the path the ISS & Space Shuttle have taken the US space program I don't believe the Moonbase/Mars Mission is going to be any better (I mean we finally get away from a launch system that takes most of the focus, and now are intent on what is bound to be an even more expensive construction project than the ISS). I really don't understand why the US feels the need to top the last great white elephant in the space business.


Hey, we have other work horses besides the shuttle. Granted, the Delta & Atlas can't and don't compete well with the Ariane due to government influence but its hardly due to a lack of payload capabilities. That being said, I think the Shuttle is a technological marvel. The largest manned spacecraft to leave earth in one piece and return. Still, it should of been replaced/canned years ago due to its complexity as a spacecraft (Which is exactly what you don't want in that sort of business).


The reason why it wasn't is clear, Space Station Freedom/ISS. Or as I like to refer to it, "That Damn Space Station". Anyway, the Shuttle & Space Station in whatever form is clearly the reason why the Shuttle wasn't replaced. As its soul purpose is linked to building "That Damn Space Station". Now don't misunderstand me, I'm not against a Space Station I'm just against a Space Station that is so huge that it requires tons of maintenance.

Oh and one last thing, if I had a time-machine (just work with me here), I'd go back in time and sucker-punch Reagan! Well, no, but I would persuade him to believe Space Station Freedom to be a bad idea. Then hopefully from there, with Presidential dis-approval the ISS never comes to be. Well, maybe Russia builds Mir 2 with the help of the ESA and they have a great time or something. o.o ANNNNYWAY, my point is that the ISS & Shuttle were mistakes as far as the US Space program goes.

Yes you have other rockets as well, the budget of the Space Shuttle is however even for the NASA so large, that the traditional rocket program clearly suffers or at least suffered from it. Moreover, one of the reasons why Ariane is often the preffered choice, is the European Space Port, which is simply better located for geostationary satellite liftings.

No questio, it is.

Perhaps true as well.

Well, its not the size of the Space Station either, its the decision that large parts of this space station are adopted to the Space Shuttle instead onto classical rocket launchers.

__________________
When the Nazis came for the communists I remained silent, I was no communist.
When the Nazis came for the Unionists I remained silent, I was no Unionist.
When the Nazis came for the Social Democrats I remained silent, I was no Social Democrat.
When the Nazis came for the Jews I remained silent, I was no Jew.
When the Nazis came for me, there was no one left who could protest.