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Old 01-07-2008
Steerpike Steerpike is offline
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Extended delay for European lab

Extended delay for European lab

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Extended delay for European lab

February is looking more probable
Nasa says work on the Atlantis space shuttle's problematic fuel sensor system will push back the launch of the Columbus lab to perhaps February.
The European module was supposed to fly to the space station on the orbiter in December before erratic sensors led to the lift-off being scrubbed.

There is now an option for a 24 January launch, but February looks more likely.

The space agency says engineers need more time to fix a suspected faulty electrical connector in the system.

The sensors, which sit at the base of the shuttle's giant external tank, are part of a backup emergency system to cut off the orbiter's three main engines if they run out of hydrogen propellant before the ship reaches orbit.

Running the engines without fuel could trigger a catastrophic explosion.
Instead of me "spinning" this, come to your own conclusions. What do you think?
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Old 01-07-2008
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erikvv erikvv is offline
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Re: Extended delay for European lab

I've read some very negative articles on this. The module is almost five years late because of the space shuttle accident and now this. America is setting different goals in its program, Europe and the Russians are not so positive any more on the large permanently manned space station but prefer smaller facilities. Both NASA and ESA have no funding for the station after 2015. Looks like the entire ISS project is in danger.
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Old 01-08-2008
Steerpike Steerpike is offline
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Re: Extended delay for European lab

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Originally Posted by erikvv View Post
I've read some very negative articles on this. The module is almost five years late because of the space shuttle accident and now this. America is setting different goals in its program, Europe and the Russians are not so positive any more on the large permanently manned space station but prefer smaller facilities. Both NASA and ESA have no funding for the station after 2015. Looks like the entire ISS project is in danger.
Do you have links to these articles?

Do you think that with the investment of financial and scientific resources that ISS will simply be abandoned?
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Old 01-08-2008
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Re: Extended delay for European lab

Quote:
Do you have links to these articles?
Here :Gepasseerd ruimtestation - Wetenschap - de Volkskrant

If you want your eyes to hurt:

Quote:
Passed space station
Michael Persson
published updated on 05 January 2008 10.27, on 10.27

It is not up to that point. On 10 January the space laboratory Columbus is not launched again, decided the American space travel organisation nasa end last week. This because of tough technical malheur to the spaceshuttle Atlantis, which the European lab must bring ISS to the international space station.

It started 6 December, on cape Canaveral in Florida. Tout ruimtevarend Europe, almost eight hundred men strongly, saw Atlantis being ready omhoog to go with its cargo. But onwillige brandstofsensoren in the external tank (the large cigar under the shuttle) led firstly up to 24 hours delay, a day later up to hours once more 48, then up to drieënhalve weak, afterwards once more eight days. Now thereby still a couple weeks come. The eight hundred men flew back empty-handed to Europe.

Again delay therefore for the paradepaardje of the European manned space travel. The scientific module Columbus, almost a quarter century suffered conceived during a minister conference in Rome, and in the years ninety elaborated on the sign tables of space travel centre Estec in North district, in fact in 2002, air had had in.

That more than five years later became by poor planning on American side and by the ongeluk with the shuttle Columbia in 2003. ‘Ah, now are possible, that couple weeks also still’, say Robert Veldhuyzen a Dutch engineer who is at the European space travel organisation ESA responsible for the cooperation with the other partners in the ISS.

Toch starts press the time a beetje, thus it seems.

With the Columbus, a cylindrical container as large as a considerable student chamber, the international space station its status as scientific laboratory must will prove. But soon ís the module coupled to the station, and then is there no more spaceshuttles scientific research material transport – because the Americans want launch their last shuttle in 2010.

And soon ís the module there, but then is there after a couple year no more money the station überhaupt to talks because – to keep the Americans, who finance the station for the quarter with their annual contribution of 2.3 billion dollar, see ‘an operational horizon’ appearing in 2015.

The Europeans see hanging the bui already. ‘We are also already further for looking at’, say Veldhuyzen.

The good news is therefore that the ISS get a real research flap within manageable time. The European capsule, almost 7 meters long and 4.5 meter in dia meter, gets ten castes this way large as tel. warrants in which can be carried out, yes or no experimentings automated and scientific.

By (bijna-)gewichtsloosheid, in a job around the ground on 400 kilometres, are possible altitude all kinds of biological, chemical and fysische processes are studied without the influence of the gravitation. Columbus get lab for vloeistofmechanica, biolab for research nasty plants and bacteria, lab for material research and an angle for study into the impact of the lack of gravitation on the astronauts.

Moreover four platforms Columbus come on which among others the influence of cosmic radiation on biological monsters and zonnefenomenen can be examined.

With the three-part Japanese ruimtelab Kibo, which at three following shuttle-vluchten must be launched, and the American module Destiny, which has determined part already since 2001 of the station, seems, the ISS now the research facility become with which the 100 billion dollar are always justified which has been put in the station.

‘All are legitimise those costs never by research only’, say to Rolf the large of NWO-SRON the programme office space research, which finances space experimentings in the Netherlands. ‘There were also geopolitical reasons.’ The ruimtelab, set up such as international cooperation project, had been meant Russian love space travel specialists after the cold war the street.

What the excuus also was, it has, since the construction of the station in 1998, started, conducted to an impressive staketsel of capsules, profession work constructions and zonnepanelen, as from the ground clearly visible to the nocturnal sky. But before well and in use is, some builders seem there again on looked out.

The Americans were the firsts which further savages. President, Bush revealed in 2003 is Vision for Space Exploration, whom provides for a return to the maan around 2020 and a manned flight to top, against 2037. to the required money come had nasa many current projects stop or run down. Immediately if the ISS are more or less ready, in 2010, the spaceshuttle with pension go, and then according to plan as from 2014 are just replaced by a new rocket with a crew Exploration Vehicle, a capsule with which six can astronauts firstly to the ISS and later to the maan.

The American look at research in the ISS it has been now especially still meant how astronauts react to long periods of weightlessness. Nasa-baas Mike Griffin said in September that he no sense has in an exploitation of the station after 2015.

The gemis of the spaceshuttle can be felt soon as a first to do. The problem is not that there no more astronauts can be transported to the station – which role becomes if it has been well taken over by the Russian Sojoez, which will refresh then zeskoppige the crew regularly. Problem also no is the transport of stocks omhoog – that role is soon fulfilled by the new European capsule ATV, which is launched just like its smaller Russian counterpart Progress and the Japanese HTV unmanned and automatic is gone to the station finds. Only: all those vehicles act on the way back as a refuse barrel, and burn in the atmosphere. Only the Sojoez come heelhuids downstairs, but in this can the relayed astronauts only spullen on lap take along.

There is possible therefore but little material to the ground is returned. That is a problem, because scientists their research material gladly sees again after it a couple has been months gewichtsloos. Particularly biological monsters must be analysed on ground, says large of SRON. Also Veldhuyzen of ESA recognise the point. ‘Logistics sees it not at all this way complete badly. On that download-capability.’

For this reason at ESA a new vehicle it has been predominated develop that with this way’n hundred up to two hundred kilos to luggage, provide with a heat shield, checked to the ground can return. Older espionage satellites had similar containers, in which returned them their fotorolletjes to analysts on the ground.

‘Toch is that more complicatedly than you,’say Veldhuyzen think. ‘You must leave that hundred kilos probable to parachutes in the ocean countries, and then organise a search. Because it are biological monsters, must the capsule be conditioned be, and must you there rapidly at, differently experimenting affects degraded.’

For this reason he sees more in alternatives. The first option has been yes or no automated experimentings analyse as much as possible to border. For that, however, extra instruments would be necessary. The other option is nevertheless use the Sojoez, and thereby one or two reserve zitplaatsen for freight. The use of the all three spots is even a possibility, because the Sojoez on the automatic pilot can return to ground. ‘There the Russians will let pay our rather wide for. But it can be nevertheless more advantageous’, Veldhuyzen say.

Of later care the possible departure of the Americans from the ISS is, in 2015. then the station has functioned just five years on full sterkte. Esa-baas Jean-Jacques Dordain said in September that Europe is not prepared Nasa-aandeel to pay as the Americans withdraws himself. ‘If nasa remains, we will follow. If not, then not.’

And what then? ‘Then you can say that the station has work to have been done’, say Veldhuyzen. ‘And then you must wonder what kind of Europe a sensible next step are yourself. Ours scenario’s aims among other things at man-tended freeflyer, a station existing from a number of modules in a job around the ground, which will become from time to time visited.

The astronauts remain there as long as necessary is for experimentings, and return then to the ground. That is less massive than the terrible ISS, but you can build’this way n new station specifically, however, complete and arrange. Cheaper.’

More than as lab Veldhuyzen consider this station also as a manner new test technology, and as staging place, a pleisterplaats for manned missions which reaches further. Because also Europe has ambitions. ‘A year or four suffered aloud, but now concerns it dared nobody say it also in Europe always more often the maan as an exploration aim.’ Especially the french have sense, identify large. ‘The Netherlands has more with basically scientific research in the space, such as astronomy. But if the large countries want soon to the maan, then we will be put for the choice to go along or stay in.’

Because of those exploration ambitions teams of the ESA have sat since a year and a half manned with engineers of the Russian space travel agency Roskosmos to the sign table for jointly a space vehicle.

This crew Space Transportation system (CSTS) must will in the first place the ISS serve, later the possible continuator, and vervolgens direction maan to go. Inevitable becomes that just like the new American system a rocket with a capsule says, Veldhuyzen. Similar with Apollo-missies from the years sixty. ‘THE nasa had really a looking ahead can, which we fall back on now on the same concepts.’ The vehicle possibly from the European ‘space port’ Kourou, where are launched even if Russian Sojoez-installaties have been built.

Concerning a couple months the sketches must and financial estimates ready to be, so that ESA, during the three-year European minister conference, by the end of November in the Netherlands, the Member States can a good make proposal.

And if it no longer succeeds also with the Russians, the plans still ambitieuzer become. ‘If the cooperation with the Russians produces nothing, we let us can develop also independent something to go to the maan’, say Veldhuyzen.

Concerning it is reflected also there. The capsule for the crew would seem on ATV, the unmanned freight vehicle that next month for the first time as from Kourou to the ISS is shot. Thereby the use rocket, Ariane-5, in the future is able be gone up to man-rated lanceervoertuig.

‘Here differing concerning it is thought, but this way strange is not it: Ariane-5 it had been intended initially as a rocket for Hermes, and those had been manned. On the other hand: there or escape-systeem must come, and the infrastructure on Kourou must be adapted. It is not easy, but I observe that the spirits start white frost become.’
Quote:
Do you think that with the investment of financial and scientific resources that ISS will simply be abandoned?
Not abandoned, but rather not permanently manned. The station will probably be used as a stepping stone for a human mission to the moon, or Mars. The article mentions the American ambition to put a man on Mars, and a French ambition to put someone on the moon.
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Old 01-08-2008
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Re: Extended delay for European lab

Quote:
Originally Posted by translation
Toch starts press the time a beetje, thus it seems.

The Europeans see hanging the bui already

Jeezes Christ, dude, what did you use for the translation ? The cast from 'Allo, 'allo' ?

I'll give it a shot when I have the time today.
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Old 01-09-2008
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Re: Extended delay for European lab

Part I (part II to follow suit).

Quote:
Originally Posted by humanly readable translation of Volkskrant article
Again, it didn't happen. At the end of last week, the American space travel organisation NASA decided that the space laboratory Columbus would not be launched on Jan, 10th either. The reason therefore is persistent technical problems with the spaceshuttle Atlantis, which is supposed to bring the Eurolaboratory to the ISS.

It all started on Dec, 6th. at Cape Canaveral in Florida. Spacegoing Europe, eight hundred people strong, was ready to see Atlantis embark with its load. But reluctant fuel sensors in the external tank (the big cigar underneath the shuttle) first caused a 24 hour delay, next a 48 hour delay, next a delay of three and a half weeks and ultimately another eight days. Today yet another couple of weeks are added to that. The group of eight hundred had no choice but to return to Europe.

Thus the showpiece of European manned space travel suffered more delay. The scientific module Columbus, conceived almost a quarter of a century ago during a ministerial conference in Rome, and consequently designed in the nineties on the drawing tables of space travel centre Estec in Noordwijk, Holland, should have been airborne as early as 2002.

But because of poor planning by the Americans and because of the tragedy with the spaceshuttle Columbia in 2003, five years have since passed. Robert Veldhuyzen, a Dutch engineer who is responsible for the cooperation with the other ISS partners at the European Space travel agency EAS, thinks that a few more weeks are not so bad.

Still, it seems, that the issue is becoming pressed for time.

The Columbus, a cylindrical container about the size of a student's room [Ed: A Dutch one], was going to realize the status of scientific laboratory for the ISS. But when the module will finally be linked to the ISS there will be no more space shuttles to deliver scientific research material since the USA is planning to cancel the shuttle program in 2010.

And even with the module in place, in a few years time there will be no more funds to maintain the ISS, since the USA, with 2,3 billion $ responsible for three quarters of the required funding, are previsioning an 'operational horizon' in 2015.

The Europeans are aware of this and are already planning beyond that, says Veldhuyzen.

The good news is that the ISS will receive a genuine research lab in due course. The European module, almost 24 feet long, and 15 feet across, will have ten cabinets the size of phone boots, where scientific experiments can take place, automated or not.

Due to the (near) weightlessness of the 400km height orbit, a number of biological, chemical and physical processes can be studied under zero gravity circumstances. Columbus will get a lab for fluid dynamics, a biloab for research of plants and bacteria, a lab for structural research and a dedicated corner for the study of the effects of zero gravity on the astronauts.

Columbus will also have four platforms on the outside where, amongst other things, the effects of cosmic radiation on biological samples and solar phenomena can be studied.

With the three-part Japanese spacelab Kibo, which will be launched with the next three shuttles, and the American module Destiny, which has been part of ISS since 2001, the destiny of the ISS as a 100 billion $ research facility seems to be fulfilled.

Rolf de Groot, of the NWA-SRON space research agency, which oversees the funding of space research in Holland, reckons that research in itself does not justify the full extent of the the price tag. 'There were also geopolitical reasons' he reckons. The spacelab, with its characteristic international cooperation, was also meant to give new avenues to the Russian space experts after the end of the Cold War.

Whatever the excuse, since its inception in 1988, the ISS has developed into an impressive collection of modules, framework and solar panels, clearly visible in the night sky. But evn before it will be in full operation, the interest of some of its main contributors, appears to be dwindling.
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Old 01-11-2008
AdrienXII AdrienXII is offline
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Re: Extended delay for European lab

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Originally Posted by Steerpike View Post
[Instead of me "spinning" this, come to your own conclusions. What do you think?
I think it sucks. Maybe we should cut the Lab in two pieces and use Ariane 5 instead of the Shuttle. Or sell the Lab and use the money to have a party.
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Old 01-11-2008
Steerpike Steerpike is offline
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Re: Extended delay for European lab

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Originally Posted by AdrienXII View Post
I think it sucks. Maybe we should cut the Lab in two pieces and use Ariane 5 instead of the Shuttle. Or sell the Lab and use the money to have a party.
Does E.S.A. have that technical capability?
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Old 01-11-2008
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Re: Extended delay for European lab

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Originally Posted by Steerpike View Post
Does E.S.A. have that technical capability?
They are a bunch of nerds, but accusing them of not being able to have a party is exaggerating.
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Old 01-11-2008
AdrienXII AdrienXII is offline
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Re: Extended delay for European lab

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Originally Posted by Steerpike View Post
Does E.S.A. have that technical capability?
Well, the Lab weighs 12800 kg, and Ariane 5 ECA can take 21000 kg to low earth orbit, but then the Lab is quite large for its weight. I guess it's probably too large.
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Old 01-11-2008
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Re: Extended delay for European lab

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Originally Posted by erikvv View Post
They are a bunch of nerds, but accusing them of not being able to have a party is exaggerating.
Nerds throw great parties. The fireworks should be great, anyway.
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Old 01-11-2008
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Re: Extended delay for European lab

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Originally Posted by erikvv View Post
They are a bunch of nerds, but accusing them of not being able to have a party is exaggerating.
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Old 01-11-2008
Steerpike Steerpike is offline
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Re: Extended delay for European lab

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Originally Posted by AdrienXII View Post
Well, the Lab weighs 12800 kg, and Ariane 5 ECA can take 21000 kg to low earth orbit, but then the Lab is quite large for its weight. I guess it's probably too large.
How about ability to dock with I.S.S. and do any EVA work?

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Nerds throw great parties. The fireworks should be great, anyway.
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Old 01-11-2008
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Re: Extended delay for European lab

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Originally Posted by erikvv View Post
I've read some very negative articles on this. The module is almost five years late because of the space shuttle accident and now this. America is setting different goals in its program, Europe and the Russians are not so positive any more on the large permanently manned space station but prefer smaller facilities. Both NASA and ESA have no funding for the station after 2015. Looks like the entire ISS project is in danger.
In danger of what? I agree that 5 years of operation life is kinda silly for something that's been under construction since 1998, but if they don't want to fund it they don't want to fund it (Maybe they can sell it to the Chinese?). That being said, I don't see anything so far that would suggest that the station wont be completed on time and I'd rather NASA be safe than sorry as the old expression goes. Still, 2015 is a long ways off and I'm sure they could find funding if they get rid of the ridiculous mission to Mars and Moonbase that President Bush called for. Knowing things don't go as planned, both should cost at least twice as much as the original estimate. Besides, as I understand it, the abandonment of ISS is mostly driven by the United States decision to pull out.

That being said, I don't fully understand the United States willingness to pursue the next greater white Elephant. First we had the shuttle, than we came up with the ISS to groan about, and now we've got a Mars mission & Moonbase. I'm all for space exploration, but within reason. Even if that means more robotic explorers and being limited to low earth orbit. After all, the United States has nothing to prove to anyone as far as space exploration goes and our only concern should be the science it self.

Still, NASA's priorities should be in this order:

- Earth Science - Weather satellites, and just generally the study of our earth.

- Robotic exploration - Robots are cheaper, last longer, and are much much more capable than humans in such a hostile environment.

- Human exploration - Low earth orbit and beyond. If you have the money to go beyond earth orbit, good, go to infinity and beyond! If you don't, which we clearly don't, just don't. Mr. President, where exactly are we going to come up with the 550 billion to a trillion dollars for a mission to Mars? Oh right, that doesn't matter to you, because you'll be out of office by then.

Last edited by Speedyer; 01-11-2008 at 01:46 PM.
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Old 01-11-2008
AdrienXII AdrienXII is offline
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Re: Extended delay for European lab

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Originally Posted by Steerpike View Post
How about ability to dock with I.S.S. and do any EVA work?
Well, there is that...Can't have the payload just crash into the station upon arrival.
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