Artificial Human Brain? - U.S. Politics Online: A Political Discussion Forum

drgoodtrips · #1 (**permalink**) 07-23-2009

This article features a group that has undertaken a project to "reverse engineer" the human brain. For those of you not familiar with this term, reverse engineering essentially means that, while you don't know how something works internally, you can imitate all of its inputs and outputs. It's frequently used in the programming world where you can watch a program in action for long enough and reproduce it, more or less, without ever seeing its source code.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Article

To make the model come alive, the team feeds the models and a few algorithms into a supercomputer.

"You need one laptop to do all the calculations for one neuron," he said. "So you need ten thousand laptops."

Instead, he uses an IBM Blue Gene machine with 10,000 processors.
Simulations have started to give the researchers clues about how the brain works.

For example, they can show the brain a picture - say, of a flower - and follow the electrical activity in the machine.

BBC NEWS | Technology | Artificial brain '10 years away'

Personally, I think this has some potential for collaborative development with people trying to "direct engineer" the human brain. I hope that these outfits cooperate soon. The ramifications of what this could mean are staggering - being able to understand and fix the causes of various kinds of mental illness, anti-social/predatory behavior, etc.

(CDavidNeely, this is right on par with Kurzweil's timeline, if I'm not mistaken

)

reality · #2 (**permalink**) 07-23-2009

Quote:

Originally Posted by drgoodtrips

This article features a group that has undertaken a project to "reverse engineer" the human brain. For those of you not familiar with this term, reverse engineering essentially means that, while you don't know how something works internally, you can imitate all of its inputs and outputs. It's frequently used in the programming world where you can watch a program in action for long enough and reproduce it, more or less, without ever seeing its source code.

BBC NEWS | Technology | Artificial brain '10 years away'

Personally, I think this has some potential for collaborative development with people trying to "direct engineer" the human brain. I hope that these outfits cooperate soon. The ramifications of what this could mean are staggering - being able to understand and fix the causes of various kinds of mental illness, anti-social/predatory behavior, etc.

(CDavidNeely, this is right on par with Kurzweil's timeline, if I'm not mistaken

)

seems like it could also lead to reprograming people to be nice little automatons.

drgoodtrips · #3 (**permalink**) 07-23-2009

Quote:

Originally Posted by reality

seems like it could also lead to reprograming people to be nice little automatons.

That already exists. It's called public school

CDavidNeely · #4 (**permalink**) 07-23-2009

Quote:

Originally Posted by drgoodtrips

Personally, I think this has some potential for collaborative development with people trying to "direct engineer" the human brain. I hope that these outfits cooperate soon. The ramifications of what this could mean are staggering - being able to understand and fix the causes of various kinds of mental illness, anti-social/predatory behavior, etc.

(CDavidNeely, this is right on par with Kurzweil's timeline, if I'm not mistaken

)

Pretty much. Kurzweil's timelime had the creation of a computer with the equivalency of a human brain coming in around 2019.

Quote:

A $1,000 computing device (in 1999 dollars) is now approximately equal to the computational ability of the human brain.

You can get the original timeline here: KurzweilAI.net. The timeline is actually fascinating reading in terms of what he got right as opposed to what he got wrong. Other significant milestones for 2009:

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2009 A $1,000 personal computer can perform about a trillion calculations per second.
Personal computers with high-resolution visual displays come in a range of sizes, from those small enough to be embedded in clothing and jewelry up to the size of a thin book.
Cables are disappearing. Communication between components uses short-distance wireless technology. High-speed wireless communication provides access to the Web.
The majority of text is created using continuous speech recognition. Also ubiquitous are language user interfaces (LUIs).
Most routine business transactions (purchases, travel, reservations) take place between a human and a virtual personality. Often, the virtual personality includes an animated visual presence that looks like a human face.
Although traditional classroom organization is still common, intelligent courseware has emerged as a common means of learning.
Pocket-sized reading machines for the blind and visually impaired, "listening machines" (speech-to-text conversion) for the deaf, and computer- controlled orthotic devices for paraplegic individuals result in a growing perception that primary disabilities do not necessarily impart handicaps.
Translating telephones (speech-to-speech language translation) are commonly used for many language pairs.
Accelerating returns from the advance of computer technology have resulted in continued economic expansion. Price deflation, which had been a reality in the computer field during the twentieth century, is now occurring outside the computer field. The reason for this is that virtually all economic sectors are deeply affected by the accelerating improvement in the price performance of computing.
Human musicians routinely jam with cybernetic musicians.
Bioengineered treatments for cancer and heart disease have greatly reduced the mortality from these diseases.
The neo-Luddite movement is growing.

And 2019:

Quote:

2019 A $1,000 computing device (in 1999 dollars) is now approximately equal to the computational ability of the human brain.
Computers are now largely invisible and are embedded everywhere-in walls, tables, chairs, desks, clothing, jewelry, and bodies.
Three-dimensional virtual reality displays, embedded in glasses and contact lenses, as well as auditory "lenses," are used routinely as primary interfaces for communication with other persons, computers, the Web, and virtual reality.
Most interaction with computing is through gestures and two-way natural-language spoken communication.
Nanoengineered machines are beginning to be applied to manufacturing and process-control applications.
High-resolution, three-dimensional visual and auditory virtual reality and realistic all-encompassing tactile environments enable people to do virtually anything with anybody, regardless of physical proximity.
Paper books or documents are rarely used and most learning is conducted through intelligent, simulated software-based teachers.
Blind persons routinely use eyeglass-mounted reading-navigation systems. Deaf persons read what other people are saying through their lens displays. Paraplegic and some quadriplegic persons routinely walk and climb stairs through a combination of computer-controlled nerve stimulation and exoskeletal robotic devices.
The vast majority of transactions include a simulated person.
Automated driving systems are now installed in most roads.
People are beginning to have relationships with automated personalities and use them as companions, teachers, caretakers, and lovers.
Virtual artists, with their own reputations, are emerging in all of the arts.
There are widespread reports of computers passing the Turing Test, although these tests do not meet the criteria established by knowledgeable observers.

Sincerely Yours,
C. David Neely

drgoodtrips · #5 (**permalink**) 07-23-2009

I think he nailed it with the path of computer size, processing power, etc. He was a little hasty on the multi-media stuff (language processing, human computer interaction with art, etc). Still, all these years later, it still seems pretty prescient.

Speakeasy · #6 (**permalink**) 07-23-2009

Quote:

The majority of text is created using continuous speech recognition. Also ubiquitous are language user interfaces (LUIs).

I pray that this never happens. The last thing I want is to hear every single coworker's word documents being made.

CDavidNeely · #7 (**permalink**) 07-23-2009

Greetings and Felicitations,

Quote:

Originally Posted by drgoodtrips

I think he nailed it with the path of computer size, processing power, etc. He was a little hasty on the multi-media stuff (language processing, human computer interaction with art, etc). Still, all these years later, it still seems pretty prescient.

I agree. Kurzweil is definitely a genius as far as I am concerned.

Sincerely Yours,
C. David Neely

bg85 · #8 (**permalink**) 07-23-2009

My favorite 2009 prediction (which happens to be true) is that "human musicians routinely jam with cybernetic musicians."

My favorite for 2019: "People are beginning to have relationships with automated personalities and use them as...lovers."

Speakeasy · #9 (**permalink**) 07-23-2009

Quote:

Originally Posted by bg85

My favorite 2009 prediction (which happens to be true) is that "human musicians routinely jam with cybernetic musicians."

My favorite for 2019: "People are beginning to have relationships with automated personalities and use them as...lovers."

People jam with cybernetic musicians?

I must be missing out on something...unless you're thinking of electronic musical instruments. I wouldn't really classify those as 'musicians', though, as they don't write music.

bg85 · #10 (**permalink**) 07-23-2009

Quote:

Originally Posted by Speakeasy

People jam with cybernetic musicians?

I must be missing out on something...unless you're thinking of electronic musical instruments. I wouldn't really classify those as 'musicians', though, as they don't write music.

tomato tomato.

p.s. I'M a cybernetic musician.

reality · #11 (**permalink**) 07-23-2009

Quote:

Originally Posted by drgoodtrips

That already exists. It's called public school

you can resist public school by you know, learning for yourself. or going to college.

you can't resist brain reprogramming because your behavior is deemed deviant. that is just wrong on a fundamental level.

Skynet · #12 (**permalink**) 07-23-2009

Quote:

Originally Posted by drgoodtrips

That already exists. It's called public school

+ private

CDavidNeely · #13 (**permalink**) 07-23-2009

Greetings and Felicitations,

Quote:

Originally Posted by reality

you can resist public school by you know, learning for yourself. or going to college.

you can't resist brain reprogramming because your behavior is deemed deviant. that is just wrong on a fundamental level.

In Babylon 5 there was a punishment called the "Death of Personality." A person convicted was subjected to a mindwipe by a telepath after which a personality was placed in the subject which enabled them to live a useful life dedicated to service to repay society for their crimes. I think that would be a just punishment for a variety of crimes such as rape, murder and child molestation and much more effective than what we have now which is completely counter-productive and inefficient. You may have problems with people being reprogrammed like this but I don't. Its nowhere near as an inhumane punishment and putting them to death or placing them in prison for the rest of their lives. If developing the ability to reprogram the brain led to these kinds of developments I would support the research in a heartbeat.

Sincerely Yours,
C. David Neely

drgoodtrips · #14 (**permalink**) 07-23-2009

Quote:

Originally Posted by reality

you can resist public school by you know, learning for yourself. or going to college.

you can't resist brain reprogramming because your behavior is deemed deviant. that is just wrong on a fundamental level.

Dude, my post was a joke. In this I was subtly expressing that I don't share your concern about "reprogramming". In fact, I'm banking on it, personally. Making myself smarter and more adept at things is something I already try to do - why wouldn't I take advantage of a way to make it more expedient?

As for the concern about "reprogramming" as some kind of diabolical tool, I'm not sure why that's any more of a concern with new technology than it is now. I mean, we've had the technology to lobotomize people for quite some time, and you don't hear of a lot of rogue lobotomies being performed against people's will these days.

reality · #15 (**permalink**) 07-23-2009

Quote:

Originally Posted by CDavidNeely

Greetings and Felicitations,

In Babylon 5 there was a punishment called the "Death of Personality." A person convicted was subjected to a mindwipe by a telepath after which a personality was placed in the subject which enabled them to live a useful life dedicated to service to repay society for their crimes. I think that would be a just punishment for a variety of crimes such as rape, murder and child molestation and much more effective than what we have now which is completely counter-productive and inefficient. You may have problems with people being reprogrammed like this but I don't. Its nowhere near as an inhumane punishment and putting them to death or placing them in prison for the rest of their lives. If developing the ability to reprogram the brain led to these kinds of developments I would support the research in a heartbeat.

Sincerely Yours,
C. David Neely

No, violating free will, the very soul of a person, is unacceptable. shoot them.
ripping away their personality not inhumane? thats the soul if there is indeed such a thing. thats just not right. i'd rather be killed then forcibly changed.

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