NASA May Drop Ares I-Y Test Flight

What a complete waste of money. Human centric space exploration is a waste of time and resources which could be better applied to a focused approach to robotic exploration.

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Without manned flights following, unmanned probes are a complete waste.

That would just leave an operational test of the J-2X second stage engine, which can be done on the Orion 1 test flight.

Ultimately, spreading funding out over several years, practically begging for the inevitable setback to not be immediately followed up on is what waste time and money.

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January 21, 2013: The End of an ERROR.

"Only a virtuous people are capable of freedom. As nations become more corrupt and vicious, they have more need of masters."
"When the people find that they can vote themselves money, that will herald the end of the republic."
"The Constitution only gives people the right to pursue happiness. You have to catch it yourself."
---Benjamin Franklin

Only if you by the concept that humans are essential in space. They aren't. I used to think they were but they are not. We are rapidly progressing to the point where our machines can do what ever we need them to do. We could achieve much greater success concentrating on developing von Neumann probes instead of spending so much money and time on trying to keep humans alive in places they were never meant to live. Machines don't need food, water, housing or air.

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I don't quite get the article, it sounds like they can scrap the one test because they can do other better tests earlier than the test they're scrapping. That would make the title of the article very misleading.

Robot also don't need living space. We do.

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January 21, 2013: The End of an ERROR.

"Only a virtuous people are capable of freedom. As nations become more corrupt and vicious, they have more need of masters."
"When the people find that they can vote themselves money, that will herald the end of the republic."
"The Constitution only gives people the right to pursue happiness. You have to catch it yourself."
---Benjamin Franklin

What pisses me off about NASA is that they grown too risk adverse.

I remember years some years ago they were working on a replacement for the space shuttle, the X-33 I think. It was suppose to be a Single Stage To Orbit launch vehicle - meaning it would not need rocket boosters. During testing the new composite material developed a leak or something and they scrubbed the test and the whole program. Just because of one failure!

I seem to recall during the Apollo days they had many failures but we still managed to get to the moon anyway. It's like you got to light a fire under NASA's ass to get them to do anything!


In regards to human exploration of space. It's not a waste of money. Countless technologies will come out of this not to mention humanities destiny lies in space. Like I've said in other threads, the Europeans had numerous problems, issues, foibles of human nature but they still came to North America anyway. In the long view of history humanity benefited from the fact that we spread out into and colonized other areas. Where would Europe be today were not for the United States?

Who knows how humanity will benefit and grow as a species by the exploration and colonization of other worlds?

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"Democracy passes into despotism." - Plato

Moving people into space isn't going to solve our living space problem. All that will do is take the problem some place else. We are centuries, if not millenia, away from being able to move large portions of our populace into space and then there won't be any place to take them. We have very complicated problems we need to solve before that takes place if it ever does.
If we don't solve our issues with population then we are still going to be limited to the habitable volume of our solar system. Einstein is a bitch. Even at 50% of the speed of light the nearest star is 8 years away. Eight years in a ship big enough to carry enough people to start a colony that must be without failure and capable of providing complete life support and its own power supply.
I know all the arguments because I have used them but they all break down to some pseudo-technological creation that will solve the problem for us.
When it comes to living space. We have access to 139,000,000 sq. mi. of potential living area in conditions that aren't as difficult to survive or colonize as space. The ocean. Once we learn to live there and solve our population and contamination problems then perhaps we can expand outwards but we will still be limited to the habitable or terraformable areas of our own solar system. However, I'm not betting on us keeping our technological level until such a time. We are destroying the systems that keep us alive and I'm not referring to global warming.

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There is no unified human destiny. Human destiny is what we decide it is. I don't think that a significant enough portion of the human species care one whit about going into space and don't think its our destiny at all.
The majority of the technological spinoffs that come from space technology aren't human specific. Most of them would be developed equally by robotic exploration. Using technology to address the problems we have now would be just as effective in creating technological spinoffs, We have very real problems such as elimination of our polluting ways, providing food for our overloaded population and finding non-contaminating energy sources.

As has been said Space isn't North America.

The more realistic projection is that we will simply carry forth our incessant conflicts and fascination for destruction into space with us. We can't escape our problems by simply leaving the cradle where we developed them. We have to deal with them before we leave our infant incubator or they will simply destroy us where ever we go.

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If your waiting for unicorns farts and pixie dust to magically turn us all into wise and bald Starfleet officers of French decent with a British accent, it ain't going to happen.

But an open frontier is an invaluable release.

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January 21, 2013: The End of an ERROR.

"Only a virtuous people are capable of freedom. As nations become more corrupt and vicious, they have more need of masters."
"When the people find that they can vote themselves money, that will herald the end of the republic."
"The Constitution only gives people the right to pursue happiness. You have to catch it yourself."
---Benjamin Franklin

Actually I think the exact opposite. I think we need to do major work on ourselves as a species before we can operate successfully in space. No "unicorn farts" and no "pixie dust". Serious work on learning to curtail our unrestrained raping and pillaging of whatever environment we happen to be in. Its the people who promote space exploration so heavily that seem to think we would be magically transformed into some new and better version of humanity just because we move into space. I understand the belief because I shared it for most of my life. The most likely scenario is that we would simply be greedy, selfish and violent in space until some madman figures out how simple it is to build a mass driver and destroy the whole planet.

The last time we had an open frontier we brought the indigenous people of North America almost to the brink of genocide and killed each other in the name of gold.

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I completely agree with you. Right now, when the nation can't even pay it's necessary bills without borrowing ruinous amounts of money, spending gigantic sums for the luxury of sending humans into space makes no sense whatsoever. Its not like there is some clock running on space exploration. I'd like to cancel the manned space program entirely and cooperate with the international comunity in a limited program of robotic exploration of the inner solar system.

There is no imperative to send humans into space.

You are right about a significant portion of humanity not caring about space exploration. It seem since the Apollo days interest in getting back into space has waned. Too many people like you.

Here's the thing though, the reason why I said our destiny belongs in space because given enough time 1 of two outcomes is going to happen:

1) the earth is going to run out of natural resources

or

2) the sun is going to die at which time we will die

Soooooooo, in either case we better start spending the time and money to do the science and engineering necessary to get us off this rock.

From the Apollo program, to the space shuttle to the international space station there have been technology spin offs both human and non human specific. All technology, IMO is human specific in one way or another. Let’s say a new tech comes out of space exploration that allows for buildings to be built faster, that still benefits humans in labor savings, cost efficiencies, etc. Anyhow here is a link to a website that outlines some of the benefits NASA spinoffs, space benefits, space history, NASA space spinoffs, NASA technology products

In regards to the environment, some tech that has come from NASA has helped and continues to help the environment such as improved solar cells and improvements in growing plants. NASA developed technology to help grow food for astronauts for long duration space missions has helped farmers here on earth which means for food for you and I.

Perhaps, but it is the new frontier. There are certainly more places to go, more resources that would be of use to us here on earth such as untold amounts of metals such as iron and nickel and oxygen or what and that as is believed to be in just asteroids floating in our solar system alone, never mind what is available on the moon and Mars.

Mankind has fought and done all manner of despicable things to each other since we first climbed out of the mud till this day. That’s not going to change. The earth has done pretty well so far putting up with our warlike and selfish ways and I think space which is infinitely more vast can take it too. Humanity has done pretty well so far despite our problems but be that as it may, we are never going to solve all our problems before the our sun dies out so we may as well get out there.

Anyhow, I seem to recall from reading some other threads and post that you were in favor of space travel, what happened, or am I mistaken?

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"Democracy passes into despotism." - Plato

Perhaps you are right and at some point mankind will have to leave this planet for another but there is no hurry. There doesn't appear to be an important shortage of natural resources on Earth and the Sun has another 4.5 billion years ahead as a main sequence star. We can afford to delay manned space flight for a few generations or until we can actually afford it. No need to hurry.

A dawning awareness of the futility of the whole endeavour. There isn't enough funding and enough care about the subject. How many people out of 6+ billion are involved in space research, space exploration or even care. We are too concerned with the short term and incapable of concentrating on the long term to make it a reality on a scale necessary to make a difference. The way we are treating the planet we come from I am beginning to have serious doubts about our long term survival and I consider that more important.
We are depleting the animals, polluting everything we touch, depleting the water resources, breeding uncontrollably to the point where significant portions of the planet are on the verge of starvation. There are multiple evidences from multiple areas of research that we have a serious problem arising within the next 50 years. Do you see us making the kinds of changes necessary to avoid these problems within 50 years? I don't. We need a time out and I think nature is getting ready to give us a time out.

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Why try at all? Why not give up, and nuke our species to oblivion since you've seemed to given up all-together on humanity.