But the point is that "Intelligent Design" was used to lure people like myself into arguing in favor of Creationism under fallacious terms. There are plenty of people who use "intelligent design" for the meaning they were told it had (the meaning it should have). That's what I'm doing. I could use "guided evolution", but that's not something I've ever done before.

__________________
During the journey we commonly forget its goal. Almost every profession is chosen as a means to an end but continued as an end in itself. Forgetting our objectives is the most frequent act of stupidity.
-Friedrich Nietzsche, The Wanderer and his Shadow

All good socialists have villas in Southern France. That's not the point.
-Eurosocialist

Ok. Then I wish you luck in trying to convert it into the issue that you want it to mean. In the meanwhile, though, don't be surprised if someone says that you don't argue for intelligent design when in fact you don't argue for Intelligent Design. And please do not accuse that someone for wanting ID to be creationism. That's not how it works.

This is the very first time I've ever heard 'intelligent design' used in a different meaning so until, or if, you succeed with your quest, ID is creationism by its very own merits. It's against biological evolution of any kind.

Thanks! Good to see you're still here.

.

Well, that's where Pascal started.

He ended with this experience, which was written down and found in his pocket when he died:

Memorial

The year of grace 1654
Monday, 23 November, feast of Saint Clement, Pope and Martyr, and of others in the Martyrology.
Eve of Saint Chrysogonus, Martyr and others.
From about half past ten in the evening until half past midnight.

Fire

'God of Abraham, God of Isaac, God of Jacob,' not of philosophers and scholars.
Certainty, certainty, heartfelt, joy, peace.
God of Jesus Christ.
God of Jesus Christ.
My God and your God.
'Thy God shall be my God.'
The world forgotten, and everything except God.
He can only be found by the ways taught in the Gospels.
Greatness of the human soul.
'O righteous Father, the world had not known thee, but I have known thee.'
Joy, joy, joy, tears of joy.
I have cut myself off from him.
They have forsaken me, the fountain of living waters.
'My God wilt thou forsake me?'
Let me not be cut off from him for ever!
And this is life eternal, that they might know thee, the only true God, and Jesus Christ whom thou hast sent.'
Jesus Christ.
Jesus Christ.
I have cut myself off from him, shunned him, denied him, crucified him.
Let me never be cut off from him!
He can only be kept by the ways taught in the Gospel.
Sweet and total renunciation.
Total submission to Jesus Christ and my director.
Everlasting joy in return for one day's effort on earth.
I will not forget thy word. Amen.



------------------------------------------------

Quite wonderful

__________________
My good blade carves the casques of men,
My tough lance thrusteth sure,
My strength is as the strength of ten,
Because my heart is pure.

"Sir Galahad," by Alfred, Lord Tennyson (1834)

Pant! I will echo Jefe's welcome back.

Good to see you - it's been a long time.

I was gone for quite a while as well.

__________________
My good blade carves the casques of men,
My tough lance thrusteth sure,
My strength is as the strength of ten,
Because my heart is pure.

"Sir Galahad," by Alfred, Lord Tennyson (1834)

Likewise. I've been MIA from any of the forums, because I was doing the Facebook thing. Had some personal stuff I needed to straighten out, as well.

As am I. The poor persecuted Swoop is embarrassing himself and he doesn't even realize it.

This thread is pure entertainment!

__________________