Visit the U.S. Politics Online Discussion Forum Archives!

Sponsored by:

U.S. Politics Online: A Political Discussion Forum  

Bookmark Us! E-Mail DONATE NOW! Photo Gallery Document Archives Quiz! Register to Vote!!!
Go Back   U.S. Politics Online: A Political Discussion Forum > Political Arenas > State & Local Politics

State & Local Politics A forum to discuss state and local politics.

Reply
 
LinkBack Thread Tools Display Modes
  #91 (permalink)  
Old 08-23-2007
Tim's Avatar
Tim Tim is offline
Vice President
Eisenhower Conservative

 
Member Since: Sep 2004
Location: US
Posts: 8,427

United_States     United

Re: New States?

[quote]
Quote:
Originally Posted by Donkey_Left View Post
Have you ever been to the American Southwest?
Yes, several times.

Quote:
Or noticed the difference between New York City and rural Alabama.

By your standards, the United States has nothing in common with itself.
Differences are a matter of degree. The economic and legal structure of Mexico has no relation to the US.

Quote:
All borders will come down sooner or later. It's inevitable.
There is no reason whatsoever to assume this. However, we can be assured that Ted Kennedy and other leftist utopians with big ideas and small brains will decide this is a wonderful idea and start to promote it - while he remains entrenched in his Hyannisport compound.
__________________
"Our fears in Banquo
Stick deep; in his royalty of nature
Reigns that which would be fear'd: 'tis much he dares;
And, to that dauntless temper of his mind,
He hath a wisdom that doth guide his valour
To act in safety."

Macbeth 3:1
Reply With Quote
  #92 (permalink)  
Old 08-23-2007
Donkey_Left's Avatar
Donkey_Left Donkey_Left is online now
President
Sinner

 
Member Since: Jan 2005
Location: Northeast Ohio
Posts: 13,164

United_States     Colombia

Re: New States?

Allow me to clarify, Tim. I don't think that the border should be eliminated right now. In fact, the opposite, I think NAFTA should be undone. However, when, in the long term future, there is relative economic parity between neighboring states (like western Europe), the border, for all intents and purposes, ceases to exist. Europe has chosen to embrace this. I imagine the US and Canada will too, at some point. Similarly, I wouldn't be at all surprised to see a South American Union of some sort arise in the next couple of decades.
__________________
"Jesus said: I have cast fire upon the world, and behold I guard it until it is ablaze."
Gospel of Thomas
Reply With Quote
  #93 (permalink)  
Old 08-23-2007
Tim's Avatar
Tim Tim is offline
Vice President
Eisenhower Conservative

 
Member Since: Sep 2004
Location: US
Posts: 8,427

United_States     United

Re: New States?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Donkey_Left View Post
Allow me to clarify, Tim. I don't think that the border should be eliminated right now. In fact, the opposite, I think NAFTA should be undone. However, when, in the long term future, there is relative economic parity between neighboring states (like western Europe), the border, for all intents and purposes, ceases to exist. Europe has chosen to embrace this. I imagine the US and Canada will too, at some point. Similarly, I wouldn't be at all surprised to see a South American Union of some sort arise in the next couple of decades.
Well, I take your point - and I can see that happening between the US and Canada, but the discrepancy with Mexico is enormous. The EU fosters unity between European nations but they are very careful to exclude the nations of northern Africa which lie just across the Mediterranean.
__________________
"Our fears in Banquo
Stick deep; in his royalty of nature
Reigns that which would be fear'd: 'tis much he dares;
And, to that dauntless temper of his mind,
He hath a wisdom that doth guide his valour
To act in safety."

Macbeth 3:1
Reply With Quote
  #94 (permalink)  
Old 08-23-2007
Americano Americano is offline
Secretary of State

 
Member Since: Feb 2007
Location: Southern Oregon
Posts: 5,661

   
Re: New States?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Donkey_Left View Post
Allow me to clarify, Tim. I don't think that the border should be eliminated right now. In fact, the opposite, I think NAFTA should be undone. However, when, in the long term future, there is relative economic parity between neighboring states (like western Europe), the border, for all intents and purposes, ceases to exist. Europe has chosen to embrace this. I imagine the US and Canada will too, at some point. Similarly, I wouldn't be at all surprised to see a South American Union of some sort arise in the next couple of decades.
Hemispheric unions are inevitable. NAFTA is a mere hint of what's to come as global redistribution of labor and resources create economic interdependencies.
Reply With Quote
  #95 (permalink)  
Old 08-23-2007
Tim's Avatar
Tim Tim is offline
Vice President
Eisenhower Conservative

 
Member Since: Sep 2004
Location: US
Posts: 8,427

United_States     United

Re: New States?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Americano View Post
Hemispheric unions are inevitable. NAFTA is a mere hint of what's to come as global redistribution of labor and resources create economic interdependencies.
And how will this global redistribution come about?
__________________
"Our fears in Banquo
Stick deep; in his royalty of nature
Reigns that which would be fear'd: 'tis much he dares;
And, to that dauntless temper of his mind,
He hath a wisdom that doth guide his valour
To act in safety."

Macbeth 3:1
Reply With Quote
  #96 (permalink)  
Old 08-23-2007
Donkey_Left's Avatar
Donkey_Left Donkey_Left is online now
President
Sinner

 
Member Since: Jan 2005
Location: Northeast Ohio
Posts: 13,164

United_States     Colombia

Re: New States?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Americano View Post
Hemispheric unions are inevitable. NAFTA is a mere hint of what's to come as global redistribution of labor and resources create economic interdependencies.
But those unions can't work without some semblence of economic parity between the states.

Once that is achieved they can no doubt be mutually beneficial, but without that parity, as seen with NAFTA, it won't be good for either country.
__________________
"Jesus said: I have cast fire upon the world, and behold I guard it until it is ablaze."
Gospel of Thomas
Reply With Quote
  #97 (permalink)  
Old 08-23-2007
Americano Americano is offline
Secretary of State

 
Member Since: Feb 2007
Location: Southern Oregon
Posts: 5,661

   
Re: New States?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Tim View Post
And how will this global redistribution come about?
It's already in process. Use the US circumstances of labor outsourcing and domestic Mexican/S. American labor requirements with Mexico and oil/natural gas dependency on Canada/Mexico/Venezuela as an example.
Reply With Quote
  #98 (permalink)  
Old 08-23-2007
Donkey_Left's Avatar
Donkey_Left Donkey_Left is online now
President
Sinner

 
Member Since: Jan 2005
Location: Northeast Ohio
Posts: 13,164

United_States     Colombia

Re: New States?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Tim View Post
And how will this global redistribution come about?
You hadn't noticed?
__________________
"Jesus said: I have cast fire upon the world, and behold I guard it until it is ablaze."
Gospel of Thomas
Reply With Quote
  #99 (permalink)  
Old 08-23-2007
Americano Americano is offline
Secretary of State

 
Member Since: Feb 2007
Location: Southern Oregon
Posts: 5,661

   
Re: New States?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Donkey_Left View Post
But those unions can't work without some semblence of economic parity between the states.

Once that is achieved they can no doubt be mutually beneficial, but without that parity, as seen with NAFTA, it won't be good for either country.
What's best for commerce often has no bearing on worker circumstances in any country.
Reply With Quote
  #100 (permalink)  
Old 08-23-2007
Tim's Avatar
Tim Tim is offline
Vice President
Eisenhower Conservative

 
Member Since: Sep 2004
Location: US
Posts: 8,427

United_States     United

Re: New States?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Americano View Post
It's already in process. Use the US circumstances of labor outsourcing and domestic Mexican/S. American labor requirements with Mexico and oil/natural gas dependency on Canada/Mexico/Venezuela as an example.
This is not redistribution. It involves closer labor and trade ties. The borders are intact. Unfortunately foolish and short-sighted politicians will probably weaken those borders.
__________________
"Our fears in Banquo
Stick deep; in his royalty of nature
Reigns that which would be fear'd: 'tis much he dares;
And, to that dauntless temper of his mind,
He hath a wisdom that doth guide his valour
To act in safety."

Macbeth 3:1
Reply With Quote
  #101 (permalink)  
Old 08-23-2007
Donkey_Left's Avatar
Donkey_Left Donkey_Left is online now
President
Sinner

 
Member Since: Jan 2005
Location: Northeast Ohio
Posts: 13,164

United_States     Colombia

Re: New States?

The borders are intact?

Tell that to the black market.
__________________
"Jesus said: I have cast fire upon the world, and behold I guard it until it is ablaze."
Gospel of Thomas
Reply With Quote
  #102 (permalink)  
Old 08-23-2007
Americano Americano is offline
Secretary of State

 
Member Since: Feb 2007
Location: Southern Oregon
Posts: 5,661

   
Re: New States?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Tim View Post
This is not redistribution. It involves closer labor and trade ties. The borders are intact. Unfortunately foolish and short-sighted politicians will probably weaken those borders.
Intact borders? The only intactness I'm able to determine is that the respective military forces aren't crossing them. Commerce flows unhindered.
Reply With Quote
  #103 (permalink)  
Old 08-23-2007
Tim's Avatar
Tim Tim is offline
Vice President
Eisenhower Conservative

 
Member Since: Sep 2004
Location: US
Posts: 8,427

United_States     United

Re: New States?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Americano View Post
Intact borders? The only intactness I'm able to determine is that the respective military forces aren't crossing them. Commerce flows unhindered.
Free trade is not the same as the removal of borders and the destruction of national soverignty in favor of a utopian union.
__________________
"Our fears in Banquo
Stick deep; in his royalty of nature
Reigns that which would be fear'd: 'tis much he dares;
And, to that dauntless temper of his mind,
He hath a wisdom that doth guide his valour
To act in safety."

Macbeth 3:1
Reply With Quote
  #104 (permalink)  
Old 08-23-2007
Donkey_Left's Avatar
Donkey_Left Donkey_Left is online now
President
Sinner

 
Member Since: Jan 2005
Location: Northeast Ohio
Posts: 13,164

United_States     Colombia

Re: New States?

It can make them pretty irrelevant though.
__________________
"Jesus said: I have cast fire upon the world, and behold I guard it until it is ablaze."
Gospel of Thomas
Reply With Quote
  #105 (permalink)  
Old 08-23-2007
Americano Americano is offline
Secretary of State

 
Member Since: Feb 2007
Location: Southern Oregon
Posts: 5,661

   
Re: New States?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Tim View Post
Free trade is not the same as the removal of borders and the destruction of national soverignty in favor of a utopian union.
There is no 'free' trade. Sovereignty always sounds good to the masses by using patriotism as a societal adhesive but it serves no real purpose other than providing a convenient framework for power/money to rule them and keep others from doing so. One would think they'd catch on to the game but keeping their bellies full, providing mindless entertainment in the form of religion or such and some empty promises normally keeps them well pacified.
Reply With Quote
Reply

Bookmarks

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are On




All times are GMT -7. The time now is 05:58 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.0 Beta 1
Copyright ©2000 - 2008, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
SEO by vBSEO 3.0.0 RC6
Copyright © 2000 - 2008 U.S. Politics Online