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  #106 (permalink)  
Old 08-23-2007
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DGG DGG is offline
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Re: New States?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Donkey_Left View Post
...Similarly, I wouldn't be at all surprised to see a South American Union of some sort arise in the next couple of decades.
There could have been one in the early 1800's, but rather than growing, Venezuela and Ecuador left it, it lost territory to Peru and Brazil and eventually loss Panama in a US sponsored uprising. I guess you know what country I am talking about, you are flying its flag on the headers of your posts.

It is hard to tell whether such an alternate history would have been much better. A modern union might work well.
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  #107 (permalink)  
Old 08-23-2007
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Donkey_Left Donkey_Left is online now
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Re: New States?

Quote:
Originally Posted by DGG View Post
There could have been one in the early 1800's, but rather than growing, Venezuela and Ecuador left it, it lost territory to Peru and Brazil and eventually loss Panama in a US sponsored uprising. I guess you know what country I am talking about, you are flying its flag on the headers of your posts.

It is hard to tell whether such an alternate history would have been much better. A modern union might work well.
Of course, Gran Colombia. I wouldn't see a new Union being something like that though, really. Not just one big country, but a group of sovereign states. I imagine it would be modeled after the European Union, provided the EU remains successful. It would also be composed of different countries. I can't imagine a regional organization of any weight without Argentina and probably Brazil. And Colombia would probably have to sort out its internal issues a bit more first...
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  #108 (permalink)  
Old 08-25-2007
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Tim Tim is offline
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Re: New States?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Americano View Post
There is no 'free' trade. Sovereignty always sounds good to the masses by using patriotism as a societal adhesive but it serves no real purpose other than providing a convenient framework for power/money to rule them and keep others from doing so. One would think they'd catch on to the game but keeping their bellies full, providing mindless entertainment in the form of religion or such and some empty promises normally keeps them well pacified.
So that is your definition of sovereignty? That may be a parody of sovereignty, but sure there is the real thing as well?

There is quite a bit of contempt for the vast majority of ordinary people in your post. The use of the term "the masses" should be used carefully....
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  #109 (permalink)  
Old 08-26-2007
Americano Americano is offline
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Re: New States?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Tim View Post
So that is your definition of sovereignty? That may be a parody of sovereignty, but sure there is the real thing as well?
Such as?

Quote:
There is quite a bit of contempt for the vast majority of ordinary people in your post. The use of the term "the masses" should be used carefully....
Why? Do you feel the vast majority of ordinary people should be held in awe? They certainly haven't displayed any traits deserving of worship.
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  #110 (permalink)  
Old 08-27-2007
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Slartibartfas Slartibartfas is offline
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European_Union     Austria

Re: New States?

Quote:
2) Yes, American states most certainly ARE sovereign, and yes, they can choose to leave. That question has not legally been settled.
Well, the last time one tried to leave ...

Effectively it can be considered to be dead law that your states are sovereign states, in case it should be still law at all.
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Last edited by Slartibartfas; 08-27-2007 at 10:36 AM.
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  #111 (permalink)  
Old 08-29-2007
WhiteyMcCracker WhiteyMcCracker is offline
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Re: New States?

At the risk of giving a serious answer, the most likely fifty-first states are:

1) Puerto Rico

2) The District of Columbia, aka Washington DC.

Neither is particularly likely anytime soon.

Puerto Rico voted to remain a U.S. Territory not too long ago (Statehood, becoming an independent nation, a U.S. Commonwealth, or a U.S. protectorate were also on the ballot). This may have voted for thid because currently they don't have to pay and federal taxes, while they still get a the benefit of tens of billions of dollars in annual federal aide. Had they voted to become a state, it would have merely required Congressional approval, which they probably would have gotten sooner or later. They would then have to pay federal taxes like any other state though.

The District of Columbia, whose residents are U.S. Citizens and who do pay federal taxes, voted to become a state over a decade ago. Unfortunately it would require a Constitutional Ammendment to allow it, and there is too much Republican resistance to this, as it would automatically mean two Democratic Senators and one Democratic Representative. So for the near future the 580,000 D.C. residents will remain disenfranchised.

No U.S. territory other than Puerto Rico even comes close to the minimum population requirement for statehood at the moment, which I believe is currently about 348,000 people (the formula is the U.S population divided by twice the number of U.S. Congressional Representatives). Even if you combine Guam and the Northern Mariana Islands (which are right next to each other), you only get about 255,000 people.

Barring Puerto Rico or D.C., the next most likely scenario in which a 51st state is created is:

3) If a state decides to split into two. For a long time it was rumored that Northern California might split off from Southern California, but I find this incredibly improbable. It should also be noted that the Texas State Constitution, as a condition of them joining the union in 1845, has a clause allowing that Texas may split up into five different states at any time at their discretion. Again, this is not likely to happen anytime soon.
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  #112 (permalink)  
Old 08-29-2007
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Wallaroo Wallaroo is offline
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Re: New States?

Quote:
Originally Posted by WhiteyMcCracker View Post
The District of Columbia, whose residents are U.S. Citizens and who do pay federal taxes, voted to become a state over a decade ago. Unfortunately it would require a Constitutional Ammendment to allow it, and there is too much Republican resistance to this, as it would automatically mean two Democratic Senators and one Democratic Representative. So for the near future the 580,000 D.C. residents will remain disenfranchised.
I dont understand how this work. Does DC have the same criminal laws as Virginia?
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  #113 (permalink)  
Old 08-30-2007
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Jihad4Beer Jihad4Beer is offline
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Re: New States?

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Originally Posted by Wallaroo View Post
I dont understand how this work. Does DC have the same criminal laws as Virginia?

I decided to report you to the dept of Homeland Security for asking too many questions.
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  #114 (permalink)  
Old 08-30-2007
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Re: New States?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Wallaroo View Post
I dont understand how this work. Does DC have the same criminal laws as Virginia?
DC was created from territory ceded by Maryland. It is surrounded by Maryland on three sides and Virginia is on the other side of the Potomac River on the fourth side. There was a part of Virginia that was supposed to be ceded to DC, thus forming the square of 10 x 10 miles that the Constitution talks about, but this never came to be.

DC has its own criminal laws, these are enacted by the Federal Congress. They pay federal taxes which are also enacted by Congress. Still, the inhabitants of DC cannot vote for any representation in Congress.

It is funny, considering the old slogan: "no taxation without representation".
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  #115 (permalink)  
Old 09-09-2007
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Wallaroo Wallaroo is offline
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Re: New States?

Quote:
Originally Posted by DGG View Post
DC was created from territory ceded by Maryland. It is surrounded by Maryland on three sides and Virginia is on the other side of the Potomac River on the fourth side. There was a part of Virginia that was supposed to be ceded to DC, thus forming the square of 10 x 10 miles that the Constitution talks about, but this never came to be.

DC has its own criminal laws, these are enacted by the Federal Congress. They pay federal taxes which are also enacted by Congress.
So DC is some kinda miniput federal state? Dont they drive with Virginia licence plates on?
Quote:
Still, the inhabitants of DC cannot vote for any representation in Congress.

It is funny, considering the old slogan: "no taxation without representation".
Apparently the constitution doesnt say that all citizens in the U.S should have the right to vote for congress. It sounds absolutely ridiculous to me, but I cant say that Im surprised.
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  #116 (permalink)  
Old 09-09-2007
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Si modo Si modo is offline
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Re: New States?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Wallaroo View Post
I dont understand how this work. Does DC have the same criminal laws as Virginia?
No, DC has its own criminal laws. For instance, hand guns are prohibited in the District, but in VA they are OK with certain restrictions. Of course, it would be hard to guess that handguns are prohibited in the District because of all the handgun crime.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Wallaroo View Post
So DC is some kinda miniput federal state? Dont they drive with Virginia licence plates on?...
Here's a District plate, the most common of those available:
Attachment 8795
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Last edited by Si modo; 09-07-2008 at 08:52 AM.
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  #117 (permalink)  
Old 09-09-2007
noahath noahath is online now
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Re: New States?

I know there's been some talk about possible new states such as Puerto Rico, American Samoa, et.al., but I was wondering what people thought about mergers of some existing states? There are pros and cons though. Think of how much money could be saved from administration, elections etc if you were to merge North and South Dakota, West VA and VA, North and South Carolina. I arbitrarily chose those states as although their name would change somewhat, their inherent identity wouldn't; as opposed to say a merger between Idaho, Montana and Wyoming - two or all three would lose their name. The negative of course is that they would lose US House and Senate representation. Thoughts?
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  #118 (permalink)  
Old 09-10-2007
danielpalos danielpalos is offline
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Re: New States?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Tim View Post
Many Canadians do come to the US for specialized health care. They don't remain, but they do come for specific procedures and to consult specialists.
I wonder if they will be able to convince the legislatures to reduce the regulations on HSA's Those tax-preferred financial tools could be useful to our NAFTA neighbors, too.
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  #119 (permalink)  
Old 09-11-2007
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Re: New States?

Quote:
Originally Posted by noahath View Post
I know there's been some talk about possible new states such as Puerto Rico, American Samoa, et.al., but I was wondering what people thought about mergers of some existing states? There are pros and cons though. Think of how much money could be saved from administration, elections etc if you were to merge North and South Dakota, West VA and VA, North and South Carolina. I arbitrarily chose those states as although their name would change somewhat, their inherent identity wouldn't; as opposed to say a merger between Idaho, Montana and Wyoming - two or all three would lose their name. The negative of course is that they would lose US House and Senate representation. Thoughts?
I am not sure they would lose House seats, but they would definitely lose Senate seats. I really think it is more probable that any State will split in two or more, than that any States will merge.
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  #120 (permalink)  
Old 09-19-2007
Gloria Gloria is offline
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Member Since: Sep 2007
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Re: New States?

Quote:
Originally Posted by O'Sullivan Bere View Post
ROFL. That comment is Proof No.1 that you are indeed of Columbian background. The Spanish in Puerto Rico is indeed filled with 'Spanglish' and other slang. I heard plenty when I was there and plenty then and now from native Puerto Ricans and Puerto Rican Americans in the States--things like 'roofo' (roof), 'lunche' (lunch), 'pregnanta' (pregnant), 'typiando' (typing), etc.
Hi, I'm puerto rican and i can tell you that those words are only used by puerto rican inmigrants in the US who are first,second and third generation. Better known as 'newýorkricans' (like Jennifer Lopez, the singer). In Puerto Rico if you start speaking like that people will think 2 things :1). that you are a 'newyorkrican' , a newcomer and need to speak correct spanish if you want to have a decent job in Puerto Rico 2). that you were not born/raised in Puerto Rico and lack formal education in spanish.

Last edited by Gloria; 09-19-2007 at 04:15 PM.
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