San Fran and "Genderless" ID Cards - U.S. Politics Online: A Political Discussion Forum

Meridious · #1 (**permalink**) 11-22-2007

All there is to know, really, is that San Francisco just got even crazier...which is difficult to imagine...but it has happened, nonetheless.

Quote:

San Francisco approves ID cards that exclude gender

By Emily Bazar
USA TODAY

Next year, San Francisco will issue municipal identification cards showing the usual name, birthdate and photo.

What the card won't include: gender.

When other cities considered issuing ID cards without regard to legal status, the debate was over illegal immigrants. In San Francisco, where the Board of Supervisors approved such an ID on Tuesday, transgender activists added gender to the discussion.

"Transgender" is a broad term for people who do not identify with their birth sex. Those who refer to themselves as transgender include cross-dressers and transsexuals.

"The card really makes gender a non-issue," says Kristina Wertz, legal director of the Transgender Law Center in San Francisco.

Wertz says legally changing a name and gender designation can be time-consuming and cost hundreds of dollars. IDs that don't match appearance could "out" people and make them vulnerable to discrimination or abuse, she says.

Martin Rawlings, 30, is a female-to-male transsexual. When he legally changed his name in 1999, he had trouble getting his employer to change it on his paycheck. His bank, though, had changed his name.

As a result, he had trouble depositing his checks. A municipal ID would have helped, he says. "It's often a barrier to finding work, not having an identification that matches your presentation," he says.

Supervisor Tom Ammiano, who introduced the measure, says illegal immigrants will benefit most. They will be able to open bank accounts and use the card for city services such as checking out library books.

He expects others, including transgender individuals, to find it useful.

"When they go from one gender to another, the state gives them some hassle about what is desirable for validation," Ammiano says. "Having a municipal ID helps them quite a bit."

New Haven, Conn., the first city to issue such IDs, has issued 4,650 city ID cards since July. Jessica Mayorga, spokeswoman for Mayor John DeStefano, says there hasn't been a strong response from transgender people.

San Francisco Mayor Gavin Newsom intends to sign the ordinance within 10 days, spokesman David Miree says. Residents can start applying for the cards by next fall.

City departments must accept the ID, except where state or federal law requires otherwise. That could include federally funded programs such as Medicare, says Pilar Schiavo, an aide to Ammiano.

Peter Sprigg of the Family Research Council, a conservative advocacy group, says he's concerned that use of the cards will encourage the idea that gender identity is flexible.

"It gives support to the philosophy that says gender is a social construct," Sprigg says. "I think that philosophy is harmful to society at large."

wooyarn · #2 (**permalink**) 11-22-2007

Quote:

Originally Posted by Meridious

All there is to know, really, is that San Francisco just got even crazier...which is difficult to imagine...but it has happened, nonetheless.

Why do you have a problem with this? Do you really need a 'M' or 'F' on a card to tell which sex a person is or is it just because some conservative group told you it's a problem?

iamwhatiseem · #3 (**permalink**) 11-22-2007

In all seriousness...if the progressive loons get their way - ID cards will be issued for everyone - but they will be totally useless.
All the requirements and proof of who you are will be removed, the cards themselves will be so easily obtained that they in fact will be useless.

pramjockey · #4 (**permalink**) 11-22-2007

Much ado about nothing. The slippery slope arguments just make you guys look silly.

iamwhatiseem · #5 (**permalink**) 11-22-2007

Quote:

Originally Posted by pramjockey

Much ado about nothing. The slippery slope arguments just make you guys look silly.

Yeah...right now in NY illegal aliens would be walking around with the same state ID as you have - and the requirements to prove who you are were all going to be tossed in the trash if it wasn't for a giant outcry from practically the entire population saying this was insane...it's not a slippery slope...it is an avalanche.

MattLarson · #6 (**permalink**) 11-22-2007

Thank goodness - San Francisco has solved another non-problem!

On a more serious note, who cares? Really a trivial thing at best.

Matt

pramjockey · #7 (**permalink**) 11-22-2007

Quote:

Originally Posted by iamwhatiseem

Yeah...right now in NY illegal aliens would be walking around with the same state ID as you have - and the requirements to prove who you are were all going to be tossed in the trash if it wasn't for a giant outcry from practically the entire population saying this was insane...it's not a slippery slope...it is an avalanche.

NY was going to issue Colorado State ID cards to illegal aliens?

Oh, you did see that this is a municipal card, right? Almost completely useless.

Donkey_Left · #8 (**permalink**) 11-22-2007

Seems pretty non-important to me, but here I was thinking that the "m" on my drivers license was for sex, not gender.

Silly me.

Steve · #9 (**permalink**) 11-22-2007

I don't see why it's such a big deal.

When I walk into the accounting office for my company, I don't need to know that there's an "F" on the ID card of the person who heads that department to know it's a woman...

Jason Marcel · #10 (**permalink**) 11-22-2007

About 1 in every 17 people in the US and Canada consider themselves to be transgendered, which means that you do not identify with the gender you were born with. This has caused some legal problems for them when their appearance doesn't match what the ID says. In Canada, it is your right to put whatever gender you affiliate yourself with, however, legally if you're a guy who still looks pretty much like a guy and you want to use the ladies room and an establishment throws you out, the establishment wins.

Personally this is just another non-issue that conservatives get their panties in a twist over. How come conservatism in America has so fundamentally lost it's roots in personal liberty and freedom? Why do conservatives insist on prying into people's lives the way they do? It's fascist. And it's weird because conservatives tend to be the freaky closeted one's. If you're a conservative guy and you think homosexuality is a temptation that you must overcome than YOU'RE GAY!!! So come out and be proud of it.

Imperator · #11 (**permalink**) 11-23-2007

well san fran has banned plastic bags too.....so they are back to killing trees.....shame!

mawg · #12 (**permalink**) 11-23-2007

Jesus wept

I truly fear for the future when total jibbering idiots like those run one of the largest cities in this country...

mawg · #13 (**permalink**) 11-23-2007

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jason Marcel

About 1 in every 17 people in the US and Canada consider themselves to be transgendered, which means that you do not identify with the gender you were born with. This has caused some legal problems for them when their appearance doesn't match what the ID says. In Canada, it is your right to put whatever gender you affiliate yourself with, however, legally if you're a guy who still looks pretty much like a guy and you want to use the ladies room and an establishment throws you out, the establishment wins.

Personally this is just another non-issue that conservatives get their panties in a twist over. How come conservatism in America has so fundamentally lost it's roots in personal liberty and freedom? Why do conservatives insist on prying into people's lives the way they do? It's fascist. And it's weird because conservatives tend to be the freaky closeted one's. If you're a conservative guy and you think homosexuality is a temptation that you must overcome than YOU'RE GAY!!! So come out and be proud of it.

so 1 out of 17 has a mental illness then? because that is exactly all that is.
I call bullshit on that number and the very premise.

you are the gender / sex you were born as , any other thought on that is sign of abnormal brain activity and/ or psychosis.

Meridious · #14 (**permalink**) 11-23-2007

I can see it now...driver gets pulled over for wreckless driving, and hauls ass when the cop takes the license back to call it in...

Driver calls dispatch, "1-Adam 12 in pursuit of a Stephan Jones, suspect is male or female....."

solletica · #15 (**permalink**) 11-23-2007

Quote:

Originally Posted by mawg

Jesus wept

I truly fear for the future when total jibbering idiots like those run one of the largest cities in this country...

It is interesting how the top cities in the US, in terms of economies, culture/arts, cleanliness, public transportation, etc. are always left leaning, politically, i. e.

SF, Chicago, NY, Seattle

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