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  #76 (permalink)  
Old 02-14-2008
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Re: Iowa lawmakers offended by Islamic prayer

Quote:
Originally Posted by drgoodtrips View Post
The posts above make me wonder why "mountain man graphics" is a clearinghouse of historical accuracy.

When I googled the text of that timeline, the only links I came up with were geocities pages, random atheists, and sites with names like "jesusneverexisted.com".
Try google and "Historical persecution by Christians - Wikipedia, the free ... - 6:45amChristians have at times persecuted non-Christians or adherents of other .... After the death of Constantine in 337, two of his sons, Constantius II and ...
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Historical_persecution_by_Christians - 88k


Perhaps you will find this site more acceptable in respect to authenticity.
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  #77 (permalink)  
Old 02-14-2008
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Re: Iowa lawmakers offended by Islamic prayer

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Originally Posted by Steerpike View Post
Under this logic, a majority would have the right to deprive a minority, or determine whether they should have, the right to vote.

Exactly how?
I said "why should the majority be influenced by the minorities". If the majority of the people vote a certain way, than the minorities won't mean squat.....so let them vote.
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  #78 (permalink)  
Old 02-14-2008
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Re: Iowa lawmakers offended by Islamic prayer

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Originally Posted by pramjockey View Post
I'll bet you $1 that if you went through the transcripts of every other prayer that's happened in that statehouse, there'd be plenty that would be offensive. It's still inappropriate to have any prayer, but to single out a Muslim one is much ado about nothing.
You are probably correct, but I still see no problem with them holding prayer....It takes what? Maybe 1 minute at most. It's the other time spent in cession that makes me worry.
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  #79 (permalink)  
Old 02-14-2008
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Re: Iowa lawmakers offended by Islamic prayer

Quote:
Originally Posted by proUSA View Post

Exactly how?
I said "why should the majority be influenced by the minorities". If the majority of the people vote a certain way, than the minorities won't mean squat.....so let them vote.
My argument was based on determination of rights. Your response must be interpreted in that context. If it is not to be interpreted in that context, then it is irrelevant to the point. If a minority, say people of african descent get the right to vote (which they now have but didn't at one point), then election outcomes can change thus affecting the majority by that outcome. That changing of electoral outcome constitutes influence on what would have been the previous majority, unless of course one assumes completely monolithic voting in the majority (As in they all vote exactly the same).
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  #80 (permalink)  
Old 02-14-2008
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Re: Iowa lawmakers offended by Islamic prayer

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Originally Posted by Prince of Space View Post
It amuses me to see many of these arguments. Most people are okay with led prayer in the state legislatures (and national, etc) because they are Judeo-Christian prayers. As long as the majority have no problem with something it is okay right? Just because it is unconstitutional does not matter right?
I am neither agreeing nor disagreeing with your opinion that prayer shouldn't be allowed in the legislature, but you keep stating as fact that it is unconstitutional. Hasn't this practice gone on since the days of the Founders who actually wrote the Constitution? Would they have allowed a practice that goes against the document they just wrote from day one?
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  #81 (permalink)  
Old 02-14-2008
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Re: Iowa lawmakers offended by Islamic prayer

Quote:
Originally Posted by skeptic1 View Post
Try google and "Historical persecution by Christians - Wikipedia, the free ... - 6:45amChristians have at times persecuted non-Christians or adherents of other .... After the death of Constantine in 337, two of his sons, Constantius II and ...
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Historical_persecution_by_Christians - 88k


Perhaps you will find this site more acceptable in respect to authenticity.
wikipedia...? Probably a bit because that, at least, can be reviewed by various people, though anyone who wants to can say whatever the hell they want, so I still wouldn't take it to the bank.

By the way, change "by" to "of" in your url, and suddenly those monstrous Christians become a lot more sympathetic:

Persecution of Christians - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia, The persecution of Christians is religious persecution that Christians sometimes undergo as a consequence of professing their faith,



I've no intention of claiming that bloody things haven't been done by Christians and in the name of Christianity. I was just expressing skepticism and a rather unverifiable and dubious source (generally speak, "viral" knowledge you find in email forwards and the like).
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  #82 (permalink)  
Old 02-14-2008
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Re: Iowa lawmakers offended by Islamic prayer

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Originally Posted by proUSA View Post
You are probably correct, but I still see no problem with them holding prayer....It takes what? Maybe 1 minute at most. It's the other time spent in cession that makes me worry.
What if they spent 1 minute talking about this week's episode of Survivor? Does it matter what piece of irrelevant fluff is occurring?
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  #83 (permalink)  
Old 02-14-2008
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Re: Iowa lawmakers offended by Islamic prayer

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Originally Posted by SamInTheSouth View Post
Would they have allowed a practice that goes against the document they just wrote from day one?
A lot of slaves would have to say "yes, absolutely."
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  #84 (permalink)  
Old 02-14-2008
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Re: Iowa lawmakers offended by Islamic prayer

Quote:
Originally Posted by drgoodtrips View Post
A lot of slaves would have to say "yes, absolutely."
Slavery was not unconstitutional at that time.
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  #85 (permalink)  
Old 02-14-2008
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Re: Iowa lawmakers offended by Islamic prayer

Quote:
Originally Posted by Miscreantgnomie View Post
Thanks for the post Hank. Proves another muslim for peace and moderation

Ill choose Die over convert to that faith thanks

Peace HA!!!
Eyi yi yi yi yi yi yi yi
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  #86 (permalink)  
Old 02-14-2008
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Re: Iowa lawmakers offended by Islamic prayer

Quote:
Originally Posted by SamInTheSouth View Post
Slavery was not unconstitutional at that time.
As I recall, the founders couldn't agree on that point. They had gone to all the trouble of drawing up a document that would preclude such barbarism, but half of them had constituents that would have been pretty pissed off if they had practiced what they preached. So, they tentatively wrote provisions in for slavery (to last 20 years or something, and then expire), opting instead to defer the matter and let their kids sort it out.

So, my original point stands. The founders absolutely wrote in something that they knew was against the spirit of the document they were writing (in fact, they even agreed on a piece of semantics - defining "three fifths" of a human - in order to gussy up their hypocrisy).
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  #87 (permalink)  
Old 02-14-2008
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Re: Iowa lawmakers offended by Islamic prayer

Quote:
Originally Posted by drgoodtrips View Post
What if they spent 1 minute talking about this week's episode of Survivor? Does it matter what piece of irrelevant fluff is occurring?
I'm still more concerned/worried over what's being done with the rest of the time.....

But I get your point.
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  #88 (permalink)  
Old 02-14-2008
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Re: Iowa lawmakers offended by Islamic prayer

Quote:
Originally Posted by proUSA View Post
You are probably correct, but I still see no problem with them holding prayer....It takes what? Maybe 1 minute at most. It's the other time spent in cession that makes me worry.
The time is irrelevant. It bothers me that an elected body of a secular government while in session injects religion. Out of session and individually I can care less. I do not even care if it occurs in the chamber. What I object to is when all the members are present a religious person gains access to the podium before business may begin. The highest law in this country is the Constitution, not the Bible and I am tired of the government acting like nothing can get done without acknowledging some higher power.

That being said, when they actually get someone of a non-Abrahamic faith up there, Christians interrupt and say that only THEIR prayer should be in government! Ridiculous! See link:

Three Christians disrupt Hindu prayer in U.S. Senate
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  #89 (permalink)  
Old 02-15-2008
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Re: Iowa lawmakers offended by Islamic prayer

Quote:
Originally Posted by joeblow View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hank View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by drgoodtrips View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hank View Post
~Snip~ Chad Groening
OneNewsNow
2/11/2008

Iowa
- Democratic State Representative Ako Abdul-Samad, of the Iowa Legislature, invited a Muslim cleric to give the prayer. He chose a verse that calls for "victory over disbelievers”, a phrase meaning convert our die…

My commentary: What an arrogant S.O.B..
Well, if you're going to waste legislative time with religious superstition, you kind of invite this sort of thing.
I have to disagree with you.
The problem is with him and those who would place such a person in a position requiring good judgment, integrity, wisdom and leadership.
So only Christians possess these qualities? That certainly sounds like what you're implying. Perhaps a good verse of "Onward Christian Soldiers" would be a good decision?
Don’t know that one, England hadn’t existed yet when most of our songs were written so the best I can give you is old Latin: YouTube - Josh Groban Noel Ave Maria
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Originally Posted by joeblow View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hank View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by drgoodtrips View Post
~Personally, I'd be more pleased with lawmakers, oh, I dunno, making laws.
Do you really wish to live in a Godless nation?
A godless nation would be different? Change?!? I certainly feel that an injection of reason and logic would do wonders for this nation's government. Perhaps a heaping-helping of skepticism in the public would be even better.

Oooo, dammit, now I'm all excited by these ideas. Too bad it's just a big tease.
Well try and hang in there, soon you will receive the world you seek.

Do you have a comment on democratic state legislature Ako Abdul-Samad’s “Death or convert to Islam prayer in the state legislature, or does your concern lay with the other state legislatures being Christian???
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  #90 (permalink)  
Old 02-15-2008
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Re: Iowa lawmakers offended by Islamic prayer

Quote:
Originally Posted by drgoodtrips View Post
As I recall, the founders couldn't agree on that point. They had gone to all the trouble of drawing up a document that would preclude such barbarism, but half of them had constituents that would have been pretty pissed off if they had practiced what they preached. So, they tentatively wrote provisions in for slavery (to last 20 years or something, and then expire), opting instead to defer the matter and let their kids sort it out.

So, my original point stands. The founders absolutely wrote in something that they knew was against the spirit of the document they were writing (in fact, they even agreed on a piece of semantics - defining "three fifths" of a human - in order to gussy up their hypocrisy).

well they did try and hamstring any furthering of the slavery practice etc...the 3/5ths rule and a provision for abolishment of slavery after said 20 years...in effect though, they compromised and kicked the can down the road..in light of having to present a united front and get the thing signed and approved, they had to do it...
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