Sherlink

The point I was making while we are learning from science all the time. Science says we don't know everything. Science has be respected, we have to evolve...

The bible is full of small print crap but the core messages are important and are shared by all religions around the world...

Unfortunally the bible was written by man and cotains alot of self help stuff. It was easier back than to stick a few extra paragraphs about hygeine than try tell people why they should wash..

If we respected half the fasting stuff I am sure our obesicity problem would decline...

I am trying to show that the Bible and Science are are not exclusive of each other... It's the interpaetation onf the bible is the problem...

Heya,

The burden of proof is on the person who insist that something exist. You cannot prove a negative - Proving a Negative - Disproving God

We judge a belief by the results of that belief. The belief in god has nothing to justify it as a good thing. Look around you. I mean really look around you. Watch what religious people do as opposed to what they say. Read their holy books and look to all the atrocities that are propagated as the way to do things. The Old Testament ( the core of all three "great world religions" is nothing but a declaration of genocide and suffering. Yet, people want to hold this archaic and degrading opinion of reality and human nature as the way to live.

I say that religion has been the cause of greater suffering than any other single aspect of human nature. From the sacrifices of the Aztecs to the genocidal pogroms of the Abrahamic religions there is nothing but death and destruction with a liberal sprinkling of slavery and prosecution. When you can show me how this justifies the belief in god as a good thing then perhaps I will change my mind.

Love and Kisses,
Dee

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Heya,

Yes, everybody is entitled to their opinion. However, I am under no rule of force that says I must listen to them or accept that they have to the right to force other people to listen. If I tell someone that I don't want to hear about it and they keep insisting on telling me about it I will become rude and say shut up.

Love and Kisses,
Dee

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If you are unsure where to go, incapable of normal speech, or unable to remember why you are here, our Welcome Witch will be pleased to help.

Heya,

The burden of proof is on the person who insist that something exist. You cannot prove a negative - Proving a Negative - Disproving God

Love and Kisses,
Dee

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If you are unsure where to go, incapable of normal speech, or unable to remember why you are here, our Welcome Witch will be pleased to help.

Heya,

The burden of proof is on the person who insist that something exist. You cannot prove a negative - Proving a Negative - Disproving God

Love and Kisses,
Dee

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If you are unsure where to go, incapable of normal speech, or unable to remember why you are here, our Welcome Witch will be pleased to help.

I think I'll just quote Jimbo on this one:

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"Life should NOT be a journey to the grave with the intention of arriving safely in an attractive and well preserved body, but rather to skid in sideways - Chardonnay in one hand - chocolate in the other - body thoroughly used up, totally worn out, and screaming "WOO HOO, What a Ride!"

Agreed.

Agreed.

But yes, the Bible was certainly a product of its time, sure. Every time I read through it, it always amuses me what odd things they considered vitally important.

Now, here you lost me. The Bible was written by an isolated culture, with no knowledge of, and specific prohibitions against the scientific method. The Bible cannot be considered a definitive text of useful data whatsoever (leaving aside whatever moral stuff one wants to take from it.)

What I object to is the elevation of it to some oddly exalted position, like these people had amazing prescience and foreknowledge of science.

What I hear most in these sorts of discussions are increasingly convoluted attempts to salvage the Bible's relevance and importance as the only book worth anything and that all science is doing is "rediscovering" what a bunch of primitive savages in a backwater desert "already knew".

Just taking Genesis, it never fails. The earth and everything on it was created in six days. For centuries, that's what it was, and people accepted that. In recent times, when information came to light that maybe things were a tad but different than that, it became "Well, um....maybe a day isn't 24 hours to God..." A ridiculous squirming to salvage a faulty premise. Only through increasingly twisted wordsmithing and semantics can the Bible be reconciled with science. As time goes on, the Bible begins to look more an more archaic and quaint, and less relevant as the be-all, end-all of human knowledge.

My biggest concern is that many Christians simply accept no limitations of the Bible for what it is, desperately wanting it to be far more. People seem to want to think of the Bible as an encyclopedia, a dictionary, and a history all in one.

So, no, I can't agree with you on this. The Bible isn't even remotely valid, scientifically, and science isn't even remotely valid spiritually. They don't really play in each other's ball parks, and neither should be used beyond their limitations.

I believe it was Jesus who exhorted Christians to own nothing so that they wouldn't be faced with the choice of trying to "serve two masters". Obviously in today's world it's highly unlikely he would expect Christians to live in poverty, but my point was really about EXCESSIVE spending on one's own luxury & comfort. Buying somewhat extravagant things when a more modest choice would've done the intended job, & a portion of the savings could've been put to better use.

Well see... that sounds like a "loophole". Why buy a large, expensive gas sucking SUV, when you can buy a much less expensive & more economical mini-van with just as much seating for hauling kids around while saving money to not only improve your own finances, but allowing you to contribute a portion of the savings (let's say 10% of the price difference) to the church's charitable outreach program?

My whole point was about ostentatiousness vs. practicality.

I don't believe modern Christians are required to wear rags & live in a monastary on bread & water.

On one note, I disagree with some of the things said about the Bible but, as far as the discussion at hand goes, I think that one of the biggest issues is that many people on both sides of this debate see things as all or nothing. Certain individuals want to teach evolution as absolute "fact" (when even science itself has labeled it a theory) and don't want anything else taught. Others want creationism only to be taught. I think the right idea is basically what Florida did, teach both.

Personally, I don't know what methods God used to create this world and all things on it. He may have used evolution (I personally don't think so but I acknowledge that it is a possibility) or He may not have. I don't know.

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Funny But True Quotes
Those who argue for complete secularism are funny. They see what government does and then argue that we don't need it to start with prayer.

Scientific 'theory' is much different from the every day use of the word 'theory'. You can't say that the existence of gravity is questionable since it's merely "the theory of gravity".

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“Who are we? We find that we live on an insignificant planet of a humdrum star lost in a galaxy tucked away in some forgotten corner of a universe in which there are far more galaxies than people.” -Dr. Carl Sagan

Yes, but you can test the theory of gravity by walking outside and dropping an object right in front of your eyes. You can't do that with evolution.

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Those who argue for complete secularism are funny. They see what government does and then argue that we don't need it to start with prayer.

Irrelevant.

The use of the word "theory" as a pejorative is just asinine.

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When they come a wull staun ma groon
Staun ma groon al nae be afraid
Thoughts awe hame tak awa ma fear
Sweat an bluid hide ma veil awe tears

Simply because the theory of evolution is a bit harder for the every day man to test doesn't make it less of a theory.

The theory of evolution certainly is testable, though.

What is Evolution? Is Evolution Scientific?

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“Who are we? We find that we live on an insignificant planet of a humdrum star lost in a galaxy tucked away in some forgotten corner of a universe in which there are far more galaxies than people.” -Dr. Carl Sagan

The point of the matter is that evolution is a theory because it is questionable. Yes, on the surface it makes sense that if fossil patterns can seem to show a link that that would confirm the theory. The problem with that is that humans sometimes come to false conclusions and sometimes things look like they draw a conclusion that they actually don't. For example, a scientist could make the mistake of thinking that two similar bird species were part of an evolutionary chain when in reality such species only appear that way because of the similarities between them. They could actually be two separate species that had nothing to do with each other and only looked like one of them had evolved into the other. Now, this does not unequivocally prove that evolution is false but it does show that it is right to be under the theory section of things since there is the distinct possibility that it all could be wrong. One new discovery could be all it would take to completely change how we see everything.

In any case, as I said, I am not stating absolutely that it is impossible that God created man through evolution. He may have. I am simply showing that it is classified as a theory for a reason. Thus no one can state it as unequivocal fact because it is not truly known to be so.

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Serious Quotes:


Funny But True Quotes
Those who argue for complete secularism are funny. They see what government does and then argue that we don't need it to start with prayer.

Evolution is only theoretical in the same sense that gravity is still technically theoretical.

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"My opinions may have changed, but not the fact that I am right." - Ashleigh Brilliant(?)
(Voting for None Of The Above, so far...)