I would like to comment on your use of the term "scientific consensus". Science isn't decided by a vote to see which point has a majority. That's for politics. Science is based on vaild data supporting or refuting a valid scientific question.

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I am an American. That's the way most of us put it, just matter of factly. They are plain words, those four: you could write them on your thumbnail, or sweep them clear across this bright autumn sky. But remember too, that they are more than just words. They are a way of life. So whenever you speak them; speak them firmly, speak them proudly, speak them gratefully. I am an American. ...a tradition

I think it's funny that the same people who lambast the inefficiency of public school deem it appropriate for those same institutions to teach their bogus theories.

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"I think—tide turning—see, as I remember—I was raised in the desert, but tides kind of—it's easy to see a tide turn—did I say those words?"—Washington, D.C., June 14, 2006

"[T]he illiteracy level of our children are appalling."—Washington, D.C., Jan. 23, 2004

I know that I blast the public education system quite a bit, but you would be hard-pressed to find any statement of mine that even comes close to my wanting the schools to teach anything bogus to their students. That's nonsense.

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I am an American. That's the way most of us put it, just matter of factly. They are plain words, those four: you could write them on your thumbnail, or sweep them clear across this bright autumn sky. But remember too, that they are more than just words. They are a way of life. So whenever you speak them; speak them firmly, speak them proudly, speak them gratefully. I am an American. ...a tradition

True. The consensus reached in science isn't by voting, you're right.

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"My opinions may have changed, but not the fact that I am right." - Ashleigh Brilliant(?)
(Voting for None Of The Above, so far...)

No prob! I'm just picky about accuracy and meant no offense. Yet, I have days where I couldn't be accurate if my life depended on it...usually due to fatigue for me.

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I am an American. That's the way most of us put it, just matter of factly. They are plain words, those four: you could write them on your thumbnail, or sweep them clear across this bright autumn sky. But remember too, that they are more than just words. They are a way of life. So whenever you speak them; speak them firmly, speak them proudly, speak them gratefully. I am an American. ...a tradition

By "consensus" he obviously meant a consensus of scientific opinion based on scientific resaerch data.

From Merriam Webster online:

consensus
One entry found.

Main Entry: con·sen·sus
Pronunciation: \kən-ˈsen(t)-səs\
Function: noun
Usage: often attributive
Etymology: Latin, from consentire
Date: 1843
1 a: general agreement : unanimity <the consensus of their opinion, based on reports…from the border — John Hersey> b: the judgment arrived at by most of those concerned <the consensus was to go ahead>
2: group solidarity in sentiment and belief
usage The phrase consensus of opinion, which is not actually redundant (see sense 1a; the sense that takes the phrase is slightly older), has been so often claimed to be a redundancy that many writers avoid it. You are safe in using consensus alone when it is clear you mean consensus of opinion, and most writers in fact do so.

************************************************** *******************************************

Scientists do reach consensus opinions. Case in point, the consensus of opinion amongst the vast majority of scientists today is that, based on all available research data, global warming caused by man made carbon emissions is real & presents the possibility of dire consequences for future generations.

Thanks for your input, but, as he responded, it appears he knows what he meant better than you do.

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I am an American. That's the way most of us put it, just matter of factly. They are plain words, those four: you could write them on your thumbnail, or sweep them clear across this bright autumn sky. But remember too, that they are more than just words. They are a way of life. So whenever you speak them; speak them firmly, speak them proudly, speak them gratefully. I am an American. ...a tradition

Which would then mean that you are against the teaching of creationism & ID in public school classrooms then, am I right?

But what the poster was saying I think, doesn't necessarily refer to you in particular, but certainly to a larger group who spend a lot of time beating up the public education system while at the same time demanding that schools teach their religious beliefs as if they were facts.

I'll ask him. I know him from another forum, so I'm pretty familiar with his views. I seriously doubt that Skerl meant that scientists get together & vote on what their research findings are going to be. He's not an idiot.

To your first point: Indeed, you are correct. I do not want either taught in public schools. However, I have no problem with either being mentioned in a science course, to demonstrate some context of how theories themselves evolve.

To your second point: Yup, there are some who do that...all types walking the face of the Earth.

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I am an American. That's the way most of us put it, just matter of factly. They are plain words, those four: you could write them on your thumbnail, or sweep them clear across this bright autumn sky. But remember too, that they are more than just words. They are a way of life. So whenever you speak them; speak them firmly, speak them proudly, speak them gratefully. I am an American. ...a tradition

That's reasonable. I don't think it's currently unlawful or against any rules to "mention" it & briefly explain the tenets of it for the purposes you mentioned.

Let's just hope it never gets to the point where they're required to start teaching it as being equal to real science.

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Um...can't believe anyone's stuck on the term "consensus".

All it really means, in the scietific context is that there is a basic, prevailing unanimity among scientists, as well as the public at large.

At one time the "consensus" was that of a geocentric model of the universe, and much scientific work at that time was attemping to reconcile observation with that framework. Obviously, after a time, the data demostrated that the working worldview was incorrect, the prevailing opinion shifted, almost everyone got "on board" with the new paradigm, and here we are.

Didn't mean to start an argument on it.

I just meant that current science supports an evolutionary model, rather than a creationistic one. If the unlikely were to happen,and discoveries begin to support Biblical/creationist model, well....we'll have to throw out everything we know about geology, physics, biology, astronomy, chemistry, anthropology and almost every other science.

The main point is, schools should certainly be teaching current scientific theories, laws and paradigms. And it has less to do with some sort of popularity contest or voting, than with the prevailing, supported, generally accepted worldview.

You don't vote to choose reality.

Biologists simply do not "debate" creationism and ID. It is simply not a valid scientific theory. Only members of the public with a theological axe to grind consider it an issue.

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"My opinions may have changed, but not the fact that I am right." - Ashleigh Brilliant(?)
(Voting for None Of The Above, so far...)

Ya know, I'm cool with skerlnik, I think he's cool with me...so...what the hell is your point? See, from my point of view, it appears as if you only want to stir a pot that exists only in your mind. Wow, great fun.

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I am an American. That's the way most of us put it, just matter of factly. They are plain words, those four: you could write them on your thumbnail, or sweep them clear across this bright autumn sky. But remember too, that they are more than just words. They are a way of life. So whenever you speak them; speak them firmly, speak them proudly, speak them gratefully. I am an American. ...a tradition

It's all good in da hood, kids.

I do think that most people are unaware that there are two defnitions for the word "theory", and that seems to be the source of lots of confusion.

From the science POV, "theory" is not some wild-assed guess, as it is popularly used.

Anyway, I think a lot of the "debate" would disappear if they just went ahead an declared evolution a formal Law. The term "theory", while correct, implies a level of unsureness, leaving the door open for odd, competing things like ID.

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"My opinions may have changed, but not the fact that I am right." - Ashleigh Brilliant(?)
(Voting for None Of The Above, so far...)

Heya,

I apologize for the delay in replying but I have the flu.

In response to the bolded statement. I will have to agree with Dawkins on this one -- What is it about faith that makes it automatically deserving of respect?

Love and Kisses,
Dee

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