no the choice thing is a ruse because you want it your way so the answer is in the face of resistance to just blow by any objections, calling them unreasonable. Sorta like thr goverment.

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"The captain has turned off the `No Dubbing' sign. You are free to speak any language you choose."

the fda approved tranfats, hdry oil etc....no?

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"The captain has turned off the `No Dubbing' sign. You are free to speak any language you choose."

The entire conversation is a "ruse" when the participants find no middle ground. Specifically, you have proponents of one position unable to imagine why anyone would want, say, the "freedom" to buy baby food with cyanide in it. And, on the other hand, you have proponents of another position unable to understand why some would believe that the government should entirely regiment what we purchase, consume, etc based entirely on a subjective assessment of what is "good for you".

Both positions fail to consider certain assumptions of the other. So, split the baby in two...

I don't think any but the most ardent, fundamentalist libertarians would say that corporations ought to be free to put out whatever they want in whatever form they want without oversight as to what was going into it. Rather, I think that a more reasonable position is that watchdog organizations like the FDA ought to exist to make sure companies put into their products what they say is in their products and that consumers are educated as to the health risks of products that they purchase. This prevents greedy corporations from stuffing baby food with newspaper to make a buck and it prevents a situation where someone who likes the taste of fat and the feeling of clogged arteries is unable to exercise a choice to buy what he pleases and live how he pleases.

I think that this is where the arguments get sidetracked. I also think that there is an interesting and fundamental difference in people's view of the core purpose of government (whether government exists merely to protect a handful of citizen rights or whether it exists to make everyone's lives better through collective cooperation). There really isn't a right answer, any more than there is a correct favorite color.

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"Government big enough to supply everything you need is big enough to take everything you have... The course of history shows that as a government grows, liberty decreases."

-Thomas Jefferson

I honestly don't find the two situations comparable.

The way that transfats were introduced has nothing to do with whether the government should be in the business of banning certain ingredients. Debating the pros and cons of transfats is for another thread, in my opinion. I personally am not a fan of transfats in the least and would prefer my food without them. However, there's no way I could possibly imagine forcing my personal preference on everybody else, simply because I think it's better.
Or we could use a little bit of our brain and do that ourselves. McDonalds isn't healthy, so I rarely eat at McDonalds. Should I call Washington and have them ban McDonalds to save me from their unhealthy food or should I just not go there?
Nutritional value is often used when deciding where to eat. Don't want foods with lots of fat and grease? Don't get fast food. See?

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“For me, it is far better to grasp the Universe as it really is than to persist in delusion, however satisfying and reassuring.” - Carl Sagan

I don't know about you but I find intrusive government to most assuredly detract from the quality, convenience and enjoyment of life.

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In case you were wondering, yes, there really ARE more idiots these days....technology has made natural selection obsolete.

Silence is golden...Duct tape is silver.

Now if Texas can just outlaw the costumes, we'll be onto something.

Those harvest cheddar sun ships are amazing.

And what you notice is taste without the greasy fingers and then the bloating that ensues when you eat too many chips that do have transfats.

Exactly.......Would we be better off if the 4000 or so preservatives the FDA has approved ( compared with like 400 in Europe) were pared back, sure. BUT lets get real, there is an inherent harm in anything, even if we ate grass from the ground. The transfats, it appears are helpful in adding to shelf life to certain food items and are used as hydr. Oil. As you said earlier, if it’s a worry for you, shop smartly, the gov. requires labeling now warning of such ingredients, why the ban?

Because once again gov. has decided we are too inept to use moderation or avoid them if your HDL is low and your bad cholesterol to high....and believe you me brother, when the gov. takes control of health care, and the drones get going in the actuarial offices, who will be confabing with the busy body nanny types, decisions like this will be made for us on a scale that will boggle the mind...just think of how much fun the drones could have, once they have a complete physical profile on you, AND you are dependent upon them for care etc.....

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"The captain has turned off the `No Dubbing' sign. You are free to speak any language you choose."

you'll only get my transfatty Lays potato chips from my cold, robbed of circulation fingers...

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"The captain has turned off the `No Dubbing' sign. You are free to speak any language you choose."

Wait, I thought the argument against government health care was because the government can't run anything effectively, not because they're super detailed, smart and calculated?

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“For me, it is far better to grasp the Universe as it really is than to persist in delusion, however satisfying and reassuring.” - Carl Sagan

Ha!....yea, well, heres to an early on set of arterial sclerosis, hopefully I'll check out early and not be around for the ride....If am around I am taking as much care with me as I can......screw the actuaries...

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"The captain has turned off the `No Dubbing' sign. You are free to speak any language you choose."

Yeah i guess i can agree with most of that, it isn't politically beneficial to sign this bill.

However Bush did greatly expand various other instruments of government power and intrusion through his Presidency and what not so its not just always the stuff to help you win the farmers and religious vote.

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The George W Bush Store:

http://georgewbushstore.com/

Well, it can help you win that vote, since that voting demographic (particularly the religious "right") is not necessarily averse to authoritarian, big government principles. You simply have to call them something else so as not to spook the "conservative" voters... (like "War on Drugs" - that sounds macho enough that it couldn't possibly be some kind of namby-pamby, big government nanny-stating)

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"Government big enough to supply everything you need is big enough to take everything you have... The course of history shows that as a government grows, liberty decreases."

-Thomas Jefferson

Right, there you go. This one might sit well with soccer moms.

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The George W Bush Store:

http://georgewbushstore.com/

Lays's stopped using trans fats months ago.... i thought you could tell the difference????

Andrew

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“...corporations and those who run them cannot stop exploiting resources and amassing wealth until they have... .I cannot finish this sentence, because the truth is that can never stop; like cancer, they can only continue to expand until they kill the host.”

-- Derrick Jensen