Thread: Drug testing for welfare in Florida

Originally Posted by reality

well gosh, you should give those people my number. I'd love some free pot. Cause where I come from, other than the odd loose joint or bong rip youre going to eventualy have to buy your own weed. Or other illegal drug. or booze. Of course people on welfare end up spending some of their income on drugs. Of course people on welfare should have to take a piss test. This is basic common sense.

I've never been to a party where it was present and not offered freely. If I were inclined to partake, that'd be the only situation under which I would.

Originally Posted by hairballxavier

Actually it's both. To do drug testing the Govt. seizes a persons body fluids and then searches them without any probable cause to believe that it contains any traces of illegally banned substances.

WTF could be more unreasonable than that?

There is no seizure here - the sample is voluntarily provided as part of the voluntary process of applying for aid. Just the same way that many people voluntarily submit a sample as a part of the voluntary process of applying for a job.

No seizure involved.

Originally Posted by Steve

Are charges being filed against those who fail the tests? If not, then all the whining about "evidence without a warrant" is silly.

Why wouldn't they be? There's no mandatory reporting laws in place?

While needing assistance isn't evidence of a crime, so is requesting assistiance not a requirement. If you want it, we just want to make sure you don't have a propensity to spend money on drugs because, if you do, it doesn't take a fuckin' brain surgeon to conclude that you might spend some of your government money on drugs...

It doesn't take a fuckin' brain surgeon to realize treating people like criminals who aren't is unconstitutional.

How about charging folks for the testing...wow that's brilliant...they are poor.

So when the government is in control of health care will they be able to kick you off health care becasue you can't pass a drug test or becasue you have too much bad cholesterol in your blood?

There have to be lines drawn somewhere or the government keeps eating away at our rights and our freedoms.

The real reason for this legislature is to throw people off assistance and the ridiculous drug bug-a-boo still fools some people into being happy to see Americans surrender more and more rights to fight the demon weed with roots in hell.

Originally Posted by Speakeasy

But you've already admitted that actually going after misbehavior would result in a huge homeless population that would cause further issues. So, of course it's tolerated. If it wasn't, we'd have a slew of other issues that no one wants to deal with.

I most certainly did not. I said kicking anyone who has committed a crime off assistance would be counter productive and lead to a surge in the homeless population. It's a pretty big leap from what I said to what you said I said.

Originally Posted by hairballxavier

Do you and your wife have to piss in a cup before you are allowed in?

That's completely irrelevant.

Originally Posted by Donahue

I most certainly did not. I said kicking anyone who has committed a crime off assistance would be counter productive and lead to a surge in the homeless population.

How is screening of a non-criminal population where people will be denied assistance for being dumb not going to lead to a surge in crime?

Originally Posted by JDJarvis

How is screening of a non-criminal population where people will be denied assistance for being dumb not going to lead to a surge in crime?

I don't know what this means.

Originally Posted by reality

Being high, or having been high is not a crime. Possession of marijuana or a controlled substance is. Therefore, you can fail as many piss tests as you want and not catch a charge. They'd need a bag of weed or coke to charge you with anything. A consumable amount. Of course people receiving money from the government directly (welfare) should have to piss in a cup. Its not a violation as you don't HAVE to receive welfare. You sign up for it.

Agreed...

Originally Posted by JDJarvis

Why wouldn't they be? There's no mandatory reporting laws in place?

I don't know but, as has been mentioned earlier, being high isn't a crime in and of itself. What charges would be filed?

It doesn't take a fuckin' brain surgeon to realize treating people like criminals who aren't is unconstitutional.

I spent 20 years in the military. I lost count of the number of piss tests I took while on active duty. When I applied for my first job after retiring, I had to submit a urine sample. When I applied at my current employer, I had to submit a urine sample.

I never felt like a criminal. Not once...

How about charging folks for the testing...wow that's brilliant...they are poor.

Let's just give 'em everything, huh?

So when the government is in control of health care will they be able to kick you off health care becasue you can't pass a drug test or becasue you have too much bad cholesterol in your blood?

This is really getting off track. "Focus". It's a fascinating thing...

There have to be lines drawn somewhere or the government keeps eating away at our rights and our freedoms.

The real reason for this legislature is to throw people off assistance

That, right there, is a tacit admission that you think people on public assistance are in a position to have that assistance taken away. If that's true, then it would stand to reason that you believe it's because they're getting high. And if they don't have money to pay for a urinalysis, how the fuck are they buying their weed?

and the ridiculous drug bug-a-boo still fools some people into being happy to see Americans surrender more and more rights to fight the demon weed with roots in hell.

No rights are being surrendered. No one is putting a gun to anyone's head and making them piss into a cup. They're saying that, if you're going to take PUBLIC funds, the PUBLIC has a right to know that the likelihood of you spend those PUBLIC funds on weed is low...

Originally Posted by Donahue

That's completely irrelevant.

Then your post is also irrelevant.

Originally Posted by Donahue

I don't know what this means.

Then don't be so quick to dismiss concepts that go way over your head.

Originally Posted by JDJarvis

Starve or submit...nice American sentiments there.

don't do drugs and receive the largess of the tax payer

or

do drugs and takes your chances

Originally Posted by MattInFla

There is no seizure here - the sample is voluntarily provided as part of the voluntary process of applying for aid. Just the same way that many people voluntarily submit a sample as a part of the voluntary process of applying for a job.

No seizure involved.

but there is a search

however, the search isn't part of any criminal investigation nor is it being conducted to be submitted as evidence in court

and, a person can decline if they wish... they are not compelled to submit to the search

Part of me says this law is a good idea, I dont want to see taxpayer money getting used to fund drug habits.

On the other hand, drug addiction is a serious problem and ignoring people with a problem is going to make the problem worse.

I'm not aware of the full text of the law, but I feel like if they're going to drug test people they need to make counseling and treatment part of receiving welfare.