Thread: Arizona Stepping up again!

What a bunch of dolts! This is the type of story that makes the people of Arizona look like a bunch of blockheads. They're getting $1.4 million. Well good for them. What about that fence that the people of Arizona were supposed to put up? And the Arizona State Guard wasn't enough? Oh and the claims about the U.S./Mexico border being a hotbed for terrorist crossings is just a load of bull.

Terrorists Have Shown Little Interests In Crossing Mexican Border

The Border Patrol apprehended an average of 339 people from "special-interest countries" - those that warrant special handling based on terrorism risk factors - at the U.S.-Mexico border each year over the past six years, Homeland Security data show. That's less than 1 percent each year of the total apprehensions along the U.S.-Mexico border, Homeland Security figures show.


None of the 2,039 people arrested at the U.S.-Mexico border in that span presented a credible terrorist threat, Homeland Security officials say.

In the end I don't really have a problem with a volunteer unit such as this. They're no different than volunteer firefighters. The problem comes from the bullshit reasons conjured up for why the unit exists in combination with Arizona's overall lack of consistency in dealing with the issue.

The $1.4 million allocation will (if the program is approved) go pretty quickly. It should be enough to provide some decent communications equipment.

I don't know exactly how the SMU will coordinate with other border control units but it has the potential to be a serious force multiplier. It could, in theory, be an excellent tool for coordinating with other civilian volunteer organizations.

As far as the fence....a fence is not the answer. For the most part a fence will do little more than act as a distinct marker for where the border is. In most areas it will barely slow down anyone who wants to cross illegally unless it's also guarded by human assets that can respond rapidly and effectively to breaches. It will, however, make a very nice backdrop for political pictures.

As to terrorists using the remote border to cross illegally.....sure, it's not generally practical or even necessary. However, such crossings are an excellent way to move material assets across the border with which to equip terrorists who showed up here via other means.

Originally Posted by lutherf

The $1.4 million allocation will (if the program is approved) go pretty quickly. It should be enough to provide some decent communications equipment.

I don't know exactly how the SMU will coordinate with other border control units but it has the potential to be a serious force multiplier. It could, in theory, be an excellent tool for coordinating with other civilian volunteer organizations.

As far as the fence....a fence is not the answer. For the most part a fence will do little more than act as a distinct marker for where the border is. In most areas it will barely slow down anyone who wants to cross illegally unless it's also guarded by human assets that can respond rapidly and effectively to breaches. It will, however, make a very nice backdrop for political pictures.

As to terrorists using the remote border to cross illegally.....sure, it's not generally practical or even necessary. However, such crossings are an excellent way to move material assets across the border with which to equip terrorists who showed up here via other means.

The politicians are lying to the citizens about why they're creating this program. I don't care much since it doesn't appear to be a federal program so I don't mind if Arizona politicians waste the their taxpayer dollars. To say that terrorism is the primary reason why we need more people on the border is b.s.

It reminds me a lot about drug testing welfare recipients in Florida. A poorly thought out concept that wound up costing the tax payers a lot of money and had very little benefit. I wonder which Arizona insiders have friends in the state house sponsoring this?

Originally Posted by lutherf

Volunteer militia wins an OK to guard state against terror


I just heard about this on the way in to work this morning. It's not a done deal yet but it's certainly a step in the right direction.

The idea is to set up an all volunteer unit that will be focused on dealing with cross border crime. Such a unit would most likely coordinate with and augment Border Patrol and county law enforcement. Presumably, they would be working with some independence and serve to offset the potential for State level corruption in cross border crime as we have already seen some of that here (particularly in Nogales) and parts of Mexico have significant problems along those lines.

Who better to help with the situation then the community? They see the drug dealers and the consequences on the own land and in their homes.

Originally Posted by AjaxPress

The politicians are lying to the citizens about why they're creating this program. I don't care much since it doesn't appear to be a federal program so I don't mind if Arizona politicians waste the their taxpayer dollars. To say that terrorism is the primary reason why we need more people on the border is b.s.

It reminds me a lot about drug testing welfare recipients in Florida. A poorly thought out concept that wound up costing the tax payers a lot of money and had very little benefit. I wonder which Arizona insiders have friends in the state house sponsoring this?

You know, right after 9/11 there was all kinds of public outcry that Bush didn't do enough to protect the country against terrorism. After passing the Patriot Act there was all kinds of cries that the government was being too intrusive on our private lives. An operation like this serves both to increase security and to decrease direct government controls over the people. It puts the citizens in a position of responsibility....right where they should be.

Originally Posted by lutherf

The $1.4 million allocation will (if the program is approved) go pretty quickly. It should be enough to provide some decent communications equipment.

I don't know exactly how the SMU will coordinate with other border control units but it has the potential to be a serious force multiplier. It could, in theory, be an excellent tool for coordinating with other civilian volunteer organizations.

As far as the fence....a fence is not the answer. For the most part a fence will do little more than act as a distinct marker for where the border is. In most areas it will barely slow down anyone who wants to cross illegally unless it's also guarded by human assets that can respond rapidly and effectively to breaches. It will, however, make a very nice backdrop for political pictures.

As to terrorists using the remote border to cross illegally.....sure, it's not generally practical or even necessary. However, such crossings are an excellent way to move material assets across the border with which to equip terrorists who showed up here via other means.

Yeah a fence only keeps the honest ones out.

But to solve this problem is not that hard. Give business owners a mandatory 15 year sentence in a federal pen, with toll free numbers for citizens to report em, and the carrot goes away. Make a few examples of those businessmen, and we would no longer have such a problem, especially in the future when the economy gets better. We lost a lot of illegals in my area with the crash and the construction bubble bursting. I don't see many these days at all.

Yet many on the right do not want to go after the carrots. Especially since so much money was spent by business lobbiests to get the feds to turn a blind eye, to this cheap illegal labor. I am not sure many on the left, the far left want illegal immigration stopped either. For completely different and greatly flawed reasons of course.

I am for average americans, and that means I want the problem solved, period, end of that story. But figure the money going to congress and just too great to effect real change in addressing this problem.

Originally Posted by Blue Doggy

Yeah a fence only keeps the honest ones out.

But to solve this problem is not that hard. Give business owners a mandatory 15 year sentence in a federal pen, with toll free numbers for citizens to report em, and the carrot goes away. Make a few examples of those businessmen, and we would no longer have such a problem, especially in the future when the economy gets better. We lost a lot of illegals in my area with the crash and the construction bubble bursting. I don't see many these days at all.

Yet many on the right do not want to go after the carrots. Especially since so much money was spent by business lobbiests to get the feds to turn a blind eye, to this cheap illegal labor. I am not sure many on the left, the far left want illegal immigration stopped either. For completely different and greatly flawed reasons of course.

I am for average americans, and that means I want the problem solved, period, end of that story. But figure the money going to congress and just too great to effect real change in addressing this problem.

Arizona was the first state to mandate employers use of the eVerify system but the law got held up for 3 years in court including Holder DoJ opposition to it. Overall we're pretty much "all hands on deck" here in AZ but we also have a contingent of open borders advocates and even a few folks who want to secede and start their own open borders, free pot, hippie love fest state.

From the OP article...

SB 1083 would establish an Arizona Special Missions Unit, separate from the Arizona National Guard and even separate from the Arizona State Guard, which lawmakers approved - but did not fund - last year. Under the control of the governor, it would respond to disasters and get involved in search-and-rescue efforts. But it also would be responsible in helping to secure the border and supplement law enforcement, including being able to pursue, arrest and detain individuals.

And unlike last year's bill authorizing the governor to set up a State Guard, this measure actually mandates that the governor name someone to head the unit and gives that person the power to get volunteers and appoint commissioned officers. It also includes a $1.4 million appropriation.

I have to ask, since lawmakers did not fund the Arizona State Guard what is the expectation that this will work?

Originally Posted by lutherf

Arizona was the first state to mandate employers use of the eVerify system but the law got held up for 3 years in court including Holder DoJ opposition to it. Overall we're pretty much "all hands on deck" here in AZ but we also have a contingent of open borders advocates and even a few folks who want to secede and start their own open borders, free pot, hippie love fest state.

Clearly ignoring the problem is a bipartisan thing. I don't think we will ever stop it, the flow. I think the gov't will act and pretend as if they are trying, but in actuality, they will not do so,and will not allow the states to do so either! Nothing has given me any real hope. Although deportations are up under Obama, it is nothing more than an ant crawling up an ant's leg, hollering "rape!". He can brag about being better than Bush, without ever planning on really fixing what is broke.

The repubs want the cheap illegal labor for their constituents, the businessmen, the dems want em for a future vote. Personal interests trump fixin the problem. That should be treason, or at least a shirking of their constiutional duties, and there should be criminal charges placed. But the system will not charge itself. And so it goes.

Originally Posted by Sluggo

From the OP article...



I have to ask, since lawmakers did not fund the Arizona State Guard what is the expectation that this will work?

Unknown at this point. The bill has passed committee but still has to go through legal review before being presented for Committee of the Whole and then funding is another matter but so far the legislature has been doing a pretty good job of getting the deficit under control so the prospects along those lines are pretty good.

Originally Posted by Blue Doggy

Clearly ignoring the problem is a bipartisan thing. I don't think we will ever stop it, the flow. I think the gov't will act and pretend as if they are trying, but in actuality, they will not do so,and will not allow the states to do so either! Nothing has given me any real hope. Although deportations are up under Obama, it is nothing more than an ant crawling up an ant's leg, hollering "rape!". He can brag about being better than Bush, without ever planning on really fixing what is broke.

The repubs want the cheap illegal labor for their constituents, the businessmen, the dems want em for a future vote. Personal interests trump fixin the problem. That should be treason, or at least a shirking of their constiutional duties, and there should be criminal charges placed. But the system will not charge itself. And so it goes.

I think that the situation with illegal labor here is a little more complex than the way you lay it out. The idea of Republicans wanting to skirt the law for cheap labor is just wrong. There is really big support for such laws in the Republican realm down here and it's more the Democrats that are against them though their opposition is centered on civil rights issues rather than economic ones.

Locally, employers in the construction and restaurant trades seem to be the big abusers of illegal labor but even at that a significant number of those employers are legal citizens of Mexican decent who start out "helping" a buddy or a relative and end up with a full crew of illegals. It's kind of fascinating to watch. The original illegal employee will want to take some time off so he works out a deal for another illegal to come in on a temporary job. Now the employer has even more legal exposure and starts to sweat laying either of the illegals off out of fear that they will drop a dime on him out of vengeance. Before long the whole crew is illegal and the original employee has become the "Jefe" of the crew. The employer/employee relationship gradually turns from being a symbiotic one to a parasitic one.

This is much to do with involving locals to volunteer to do ... what a politicized Federal government refuses to do. Who knows who belongs in a community? The community. Who knows where drugs are being moved? The homeowners whose land is being used a launching pad and way station. Who cares about the problems being faced by Arizonans? The people of Arizona. It has nothing to do with international terrorism, but it does open the door to escape the clutches of the Feds incompetence and lack of caring.

Originally Posted by lutherf

You know, right after 9/11 there was all kinds of public outcry that Bush didn't do enough to protect the country against terrorism. After passing the Patriot Act there was all kinds of cries that the government was being too intrusive on our private lives.

I don't know why you're bringing up Bush' failed policies. Obama is president now and under his administration deportations are up. As stated in the article I cited, border security and terrorism have almost nothing to do with each other.

Originally Posted by lutherf

An operation like this serves both to increase security and to decrease direct government controls over the people. It puts the citizens in a position of responsibility....right where they should be.

There are many things that the citizens should be able to do. When it comes to national security the common person shouldn't have a primary hand. My issue isn't with the program but with the blatant lies coming from the powers that be to rally the base.