Potential Rule Change

[moon]

Noahath;

I find it somewhat ironic Moon that you accuse others of pursuing an agenda.....

I make no secret of my agenda, unlike others, and my protests at this proposal to allow an unelected body to censor the membership according to their own agendas is clearly designed to protect my existing right to air my viewpoint.
Lumping the IOF murder of six Palestinian civilians on Tuesday into the same thead as that concerning the razing of a Palestinian olive grove on Monday is not my idea of 'spam' control, yet I know enough about the politics of USPOL moderators to guess that that is what is intended.
NO. Everybody should be free to politely express their views without having to negotiate any bottle-neck of 'mod-think'.

[Imperator]

did you use the vulcan mind meld method or osmosis to arrive at that conclusion?

[moon]

It's deduced from my own experiences of 'mod-think' in the past. Let me attempt to assist with any possible myopia regarding giving unnecessary powers to unelected bodies.

There's an earlier post , in this thread, in which the poster praises the moderating team and states that he has never had any problems with moderator decisions. It's been there for two or three days. Now, if somebody had criticized the moderating team and stated that they'd been frequently mistreated by them then that post wouldn't have survived for 30 minutes. I don't doubt that some moderators won't be able to follow my argument here. Let me elaborate;
Moderator's decision= good; leave it up.
Moderator's decision =bad; delete it.
It's hard to see it from the inside, I know. There are rules against even discussing it .
That's what happens when there's no oversight and there would be no oversight on moderator decisions concerning what was thoughtless 'spam' and what was intelligent and deliberate pressurization . I am of absolutely no doubt whatsoever that partisanship would kick in to the detriment of progressive debate. And I don't need to use my Vulcan mind-meld powers to see it coming.
NO

[pramjockey]

Originally Posted by moon

It's deduced from my own experiences of 'mod-think' in the past. Let me attempt to assist with any possible myopia regarding giving unnecessary powers to unelected bodies.

There's an earlier post , in this thread, in which the poster praises the moderating team and states that he has never had any problems with moderator decisions. It's been there for two or three days. Now, if somebody had criticized the moderating team and stated that they'd been frequently mistreated by them then that post wouldn't have survived for 30 minutes. I don't doubt that some moderators won't be able to follow my argument here. Let me elaborate;
Moderator's decision= good; leave it up.
Moderator's decision =bad; delete it.
It's hard to see it from the inside, I know. There are rules against even discussing it .
That's what happens when there's no oversight and there would be no oversight on moderator decisions concerning what was thoughtless 'spam' and what was intelligent and deliberate pressurization . I am of absolutely no doubt whatsoever that partisanship would kick in to the detriment of progressive debate. And I don't need to use my Vulcan mind-meld powers to see it coming.
[b]NO[/i]

Funny, my post is hardly complimentary to the mod staff, yet it hasn't been deleted:

Originally Posted by pramjockey

To me it seems that it would add yet another layer of complexity to an already difficult job. I'm not sure that there would be any real benefit, and to be brutally honest, adding another rule to a set that is only somewhat enforced doesn't seem to really be adding anything to the situation.

I suspect that if the current rules were more effectively enforced that much of this particular issue would be moot.

There does seem to be a false presumption that the forum is a democracy (or should be) and that some posters have a right to post here. Clearly neither of those are the case.

[moon]

Funny, my post is hardly complimentary to the mod staff, yet it hasn't been deleted:

Try critical.

There does seem to be a false presumption that the forum is a democracy (or should be) and that some posters have a right to post here. Clearly neither of those are the case.

As I said earlier, and I'm sorry you missed it, if the membership don't try to at least push for a semblance of normal, democratic society then things will never change.
And for a political forum that's one hell of an anomaly.

[pramjockey]

Originally Posted by moon

Try critical.

You mean like this?

Originally Posted by pramjockey

I suspect that if the current rules were more effectively enforced that much of this particular issue would be moot.

Way to dodge the rest of the post, BTW.

[moon]

You call that critical ?

Don't try that 'dodge' crappo on me. Your points were addressed.

[pramjockey]

Originally Posted by moon

You call that critical ?

Don't try that 'dodge' crappo on me. Your points were addressed.

My points were "addressed" after I had already written my post.

And, yes, I do call it critical. At least I'm up front with my criticisms (moreso in arenas to which you are not privy), instead of taking a passive-aggressive "help help I'm being repressed" position.

[moon]

My post was there, in total, before your response. Don't try that 'dodge' crappo on me.

Anyway, I couldn't express myself any clearer regarding the foolishness of voting to allow a further erosion of one's rights to speak out. The suggestion that members don't have any rights because it's a private forum is simply self-eradicating. If we don't at least act like we're in a democracy then all the pro-democracy posts made in all the pro-democracy threads are worthless.
So, moderators, admin. and owner, let's at least go through the motions of subscribing to a pro-democratic forum. If not, let's drop the pretense .

[pramjockey]

Originally Posted by moon

My post was there, in total, before your response. Don't try that 'dodge' crappo on me.

Bullshit. I hit the quote button and did not edit your post in the slightest.

Anyway, I couldn't express myself any clearer regarding the foolishness of voting to allow a further erosion of one's rights to speak out. The suggestion that members don't have any rights because it's a private forum is simply self-eradicating. If we don't at least act like we're in a democracy then all the pro-democracy posts made in all the pro-democracy threads are worthless.
So, moderators, admin. and owner, let's at least go through the motions of subscribing to a pro-democratic forum. If not, let's drop the pretense .

But, clearly we do not have any rights. This is Marc's forum. He can do what he wishes with it. While we may feel like we have some ownership in it because of the time and effort we have spent here, it's clear that such a feeling is not based in reality. Marc owes us nothing, and he is not answerable to any of us. If he bans you (or me) tomorrow, there is nothing we can do about it. If he shuts off the forum today, again, there ain't a damn thing you can do about it.

[moon]

Bullshit. I hit the quote button and did not edit your post in the slightest.

Bollox. When I read my post online there was nothing yet following it.

But, clearly we do not have any rights. This is Marc's forum. He can do what he wishes with it. While we may feel like we have some ownership in it because of the time and effort we have spent here, it's clear that such a feeling is not based in reality. Marc owes us nothing, and he is not answerable to any of us. If he bans you (or me) tomorrow, there is nothing we can do about it. If he shuts off the forum today, again, there ain't a damn thing you can do about it.

For god's sake, man, nothing is achieved without backbone. You could , at least, try to embarrass the staff and owner into democratic habits without just falling over.

[Si modo]

Originally Posted by moon

Bollox. When I read my post online there was nothing yet following it.



For god's sake, man, nothing is achieved without backbone. You could , at least, try to embarrass the staff and owner into democratic habits without just falling over.

The staff did and does have a poll on it.

[moon]

The staff did and does have a poll on it.

What are you trying to suggest ?

[pramjockey]

Originally Posted by moon

Bollox. When I read my post online there was nothing yet following it.

That's fine. However, while you were editing your post, I had already quoted it and was writing my reply.

For god's sake, man, nothing is achieved without backbone. You could , at least, try to embarrass the staff and owner into democratic habits without just falling over.

Oh, I have a backbone. Again, there are actions to which you are not privy. However, I disagree with your presumption that your behavior will accomplish anything (except the mild annoyance of the staff). It will certainly not result in any significant changes, especially given the source.

[moon]

Backbone you may have, but from here it appears horizontal.

pramjockey;

clearly we do not have any rights.

I disagree with your presumption that your behavior will accomplish anything

And I agree with you that yours never will.