Blasphemy as a forum rule violation

[Steve]

Originally Posted by metalted

Yet, they laid down their lives as the ultimate proof of their complete confidence in the truth of their message.

A guy did that in Baghdad just the other day...

[metalted]

Originally Posted by Kash

No, I'm not the kind who's going to spit out the drivel that Muslims are indoctrinated with at a young age. :P

I didn't say I was going to defend it. I said I was going to present you with an accurate view of what Islam is. Just because I don't believe in religion doesn't mean we can go ahead and vilify it all we want. Religions react that way to atheists and nonbelievers, so if I engaged in that very behavior, then how would I be any better?

Islam doesn't rely upon the decimation of Christianity as a foundation. It simply wishes to bring back the Abrahamic form of monotheism, which did not involve a trinity or any other association with God. That is the fundamental core of Islam. It can cohabit with Judaism and Christianity without needing to force them to convert. In fact, in the initial expansive years of Islam, the years which tend to be most orthodox for any religion, conversion was actually not encouraged due to the taxes the rulers would gain from non-Muslims. Don't think of this as any sort of punishment, for the Muslim citizens had a religious tax, so the jizyah was created as a way for non-Muslims to also pay taxes. Contrary to what you may have heard, Islam was not spread by the sword.

However, there are many inconsistencies in the Quran as there are with every religious text, that led me to disavow any and all religion. So it's not as though I discovered something in Islam that was unique to renege on it, but rather it shared a common trait with Christianity and Judaism in its illogical assertions.

The erradication of Christianity is not exactly stated out right. But I believe it is very much implicit. And it is true that Islam does not exactly intend to force everyone to be muslims, as much as it intends to force everyone to be under its crushing heel. It wants political domination over the earth, and by means of harrassment and intimidation it recieves converts simply from people who want to stop the abuse.

One of the most Common themes I see repeated again and again in Islam Is the proclamation that the Law of Allah will prevail over the earth. Which of course I am interpretating as shariah. mixed in with allot of threats and curses against the unbeliever, and exhortations of violence,, many interesting and threatning prophecies..

Plus, What hadiths do you consider legit? or rather, what do most muslims recognize? because some of them are absolutely something else.

[Pogo]

Originally Posted by metalted

The resurrection of Jesus was also declared in numerous other accounts, including the appearance of Jesus to Mary Magdalene (John 20:10-18), to other women (Matthew 28:8-10), to Cleopas and his companion (Luke 24:13-32), to eleven disciples and others (Luke 24:33-49), to ten apostles and others (excluding Thomas) (John 20:19-23), to the apostles (including Thomas) (John 20:26-30), to seven apostles (John 21:1-14), to the disciples (Matthew 28:16-20), and to the apostles on the Mount of Olives (Luke 24:50-52 and Acts 1:4-9)

Christians were beaten, stoned to death, thrown to the lions, tortured and crucified. Every conceivable method was used to stop them from talking.

Yet, they laid down their lives as the ultimate proof of their complete confidence in the truth of their message.

Well, if the witness accounts are accurate, the obvious answer is that Jesus didn't die on the cross, contrary to Christian dogma. Very plausible when you consider the fact that death by crucifixion generally took about 3 days, whereas Jesus was removed from the cross after only 1 day.

[metalted]

Originally Posted by Steve

A guy did that in Baghdad just the other day...

Certainty in belief is not evil. Its what they do with it.

[metalted]

Originally Posted by Pogo

Well, if the witness accounts are accurate, the obvious answer is that Jesus didn't die on the cross, contrary to Christian dogma. Very plausible when you consider the fact that death by crucifixion generally took about 3 days, whereas Jesus was removed from the cross after only 1 day.

He was also stabbed by the Roman soldier.

[metalted]

Originally Posted by Steve

That doesn't answer the question.

Did any of those who supposedly saw the risen jesus write down their personal experiences in the bible?

I know what John, Matthew, Luke wrote in the bible. I also know what they didn't write...

not following.

[Steve]

Originally Posted by metalted

He was also stabbed by the Roman soldier.

Hmmm... I've been stabbed.

Pretty sure it didn't kill me, though...

[Steve]

Originally Posted by metalted

not following.

No shit...

[Pogo]

Originally Posted by metalted

He was also stabbed by the Roman soldier.

And you think you can prove that the wound was fatal?

The fact that Jesus was seen to walk would indicate, IMO, that said stab wound was not fatal.

[metalted]

Originally Posted by Pogo

And you think you can prove that the wound was fatal?

The fact that Jesus was seen to walk would indicate, IMO, that said stab wound was not fatal.

Are we talking about proof from the Bible, or from a time machine?

[metalted]

Have you guys ever heard of the "suffering servant of Isaiah?"

[Pogo]

Originally Posted by metalted

Are we talking about proof from the Bible, or from a time machine?

How about proof in the context of how it's defined in a dictionary?

It's the lack thereof that necessitates the religious device commonly known as "faith".

[metalted]

Originally Posted by Pogo

How about proof in the context of how it's defined in a dictionary?

It's the lack thereof that necessitates the religious device commonly known as "faith".

The Bible story says what it says, he Died on the Cross. Anything less is just an unfounded theory. But when added in with Hebrew Prophecies the fortold this event it becomes more interesting.

[Kash]

Originally Posted by metalted

The erradication of Christianity is not exactly stated out right. But I believe it is very much implicit. And it is true that Islam does not exactly intend to force everyone to be muslims, as much as it intends to force everyone to be under its crushing heel. It wants political domination over the earth, and by means of harrassment and intimidation it recieves converts simply from people who want to stop the abuse.

One of the most Common themes I see repeated again and again in Islam Is the proclamation that the Law of Allah will prevail over the earth. Which of course I am interpretating as shariah. mixed in with allot of threats and curses against the unbeliever, and exhortations of violence,, many interesting and threatning prophecies..

Plus, What hadiths do you consider legit? or rather, what do most muslims recognize? because some of them are absolutely something else.

You could say every proselytizing religion stakes a claim in dominion over the earth, so it's not as though Islam is unique in that aspect.

However, I do find contention with your claim that Islam subtly calls for the eradication of Christianity. I have never read or seen anything that calls for wiping out either Christianity or Judaism. The only verses of violence that I have seen are in regard to response to aggression. The Quran calls for its followers to present the faith to unbelievers (much like Christians do), and if they refuse, then it will be up to God to decide their fate. In no way does it give authority to Muslims to take action against the nonbelievers.

The law of Allah that you speak of isn't talking about shariah. It's talking about the message of monotheism and acknowledgment of Muhammad as the prophet. Shariah isn't something you find in the Quran or Hadiths, it's rather a man made compilation of laws that have foundation in the former texts, much like how our laws have the Constitution as their basis. So the Quran and Hadith can't call for the spread of something that was created afterwards. The fact that some Muslims threaten violence in spreading this message is no worse than Christians bombing abortion clinics in attempts to get others to follow their interpretation of Christianity. That violence doesn't stem from the religion itself, but rather from misguided followers, which is a flaw you see in every religion.

Don't get me wrong, I'm not going to go ahead and say that Islam is a peaceful religion and all that nonsense. There is certainly violence in the Quran and Hadith, as there is in the Bible and Torah. Most of the violence has to do with the actions of God in the hereafter rather than calls to violence for the followers.

As for the Hadiths, I find them to be a little dubious. There is some evidence to show that Hadiths are not to be used as a source for religious guidance, namely some verses in the Quran. Then there is the more rational notion that it's somewhat difficult to follow quotations of the prophet that were written down some two hundred years after the man passed away, especially in an age where literacy rates were almost nil. So the Hadith can be considered nothing more than hearsay.

[John Drake]

Originally Posted by metalted

You could not demonstrate how Universe could be eternal and self sustaining and self creating without intelligence.

I believe in a Creator that exist above and beyond this physical observable and testable world. In similiar fashion that a programer exists outside of Pac Man. The boundries established by the creator are the natural laws/time/space ect. can not be applied in the same way to God because He is the programer existing in another completely alien system we can not observe, nor understand in the same way a two dimentional Pac Man set in the boundries and laws we created for it.. could never observe or understand our three dimensional universe.

Oh, you mean the pan-dimensional higher order beings, the mice

If your 1st sentence means I need to be an intelligent being to understand the Universe I agree, but see that fact as having no relevance here. If you mean I can't explain how our very complex Universe has come to exist without presupposing an intelligence, that is simply not so. Science can and does now explain how the Universe came to be from first causes. Amazing complexity can and does evolve by itself, if given enough time. Now you might want to call these First Causes, or time, god, but seeing as you will then conclude that the Big Bang or Immemorial Time is against abortion and gay marriage, let's not.

Originally Posted by metalted

The resurrection of Jesus was also declared in numerous other accounts, including the appearance of Jesus to Mary Magdalene (John 20:10-18), to other women (Matthew 28:8-10), to Cleopas and his companion (Luke 24:13-32), to eleven disciples and others (Luke 24:33-49), to ten apostles and others (excluding Thomas) (John 20:19-23), to the apostles (including Thomas) (John 20:26-30), to seven apostles (John 21:1-14), to the disciples (Matthew 28:16-20), and to the apostles on the Mount of Olives (Luke 24:50-52 and Acts 1:4-9)

Christians were beaten, stoned to death, thrown to the lions, tortured and crucified. Every conceivable method was used to stop them from talking.

Yet, they laid down their lives as the ultimate proof of their complete confidence in the truth of their message.

Resurrection Of Jesus

Evidence for the Resurrection

So???