This is indeed what I am talking about. There was no cowardice displayed by these guys. There was no brutality. The insurgents were responsible for those deaths by trapping the families in their homes, and then initiating contact from those same houses.

There was no cover up. The incident was investigated, and the Commanding Officer found no misconduct on the part of his Marines. There was a second investigation performed by a different command, which came to the same conclusion. Only after the insurgent linked "investigator" released the insurgencies side of the story to the press did it suddenly become a political football for the higher echelons.

As for your last paragraph, there has ALWAYS been collateral damage, unintended deaths, and friendly fire incidence performed by ALL militaries, EVER.

How has it suddenly become a tarnish for the American military. Heck, if we really wanted to, we could easily follow the Russian model in Chechneya of surrounding villages and towns, shelling the fuck out of everyone there, fire bombing the joint, then rolling in and shooting anyone still alive. But we don't do that. We truly do try to eliminate civilian deaths. Unfortunatly, sometimes we are placed into a predicament where the unintended happens.

You never hear about that though, do ya? Nope, just the overbloated, incompetent, American military slaughtering innocents.<---- Said tongue in cheek, I am not proving your point.

I actually did not see him painting you like that. You were the one ushing him into war he does not believe in, and feels that he is more useful in civilian life.
You on the other hand, chose military career, and that compelles you to follow orders and execute commands. You are the one fighting, as it is your choise and your job.

Wasn't the freedom of speech one of the things your nation was founded upon?

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En uneksi. I do not dream.

First, I was speaking to you, and no-one else. I said you, specifically, do not know what YOU are talking about.

You deride others here for forming an opinion off what others tell them, yet you have just done the same thing.

Kinda convenient for you, huh?

We do often ignore criticisms as Marines, but, we RARELY ignore accusssations of inproper conduct, and are ruthless about weeding out those who sully our reputation. Nice try though.

WTF are you yammering about?

How in the hell can I push him, over the internet, or even in real life, into a war he doesn't believe in?

Go back and read his posts. Read the inflammatory rhetoric in them. Then, please, for the love of God, show me where I have mentioned he shouldn't be able to voice his opinion, or where I have tried to muzzle his speach.. I truly want you to do that, because it NEVER happened.

Standing for what you believe in is having a strong will. It would be courageous if he stuck to it while being tortured for his beliefs.

Wisdom comes from experience. Any fool can blindly believe an untested opinion.

You can't, but that did not stop you from trying it anyway.

Then we simply see the replies in different light, and it's fruitless to bash one anothers on this.
You are a touchy one for a Marine.

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En uneksi. I do not dream.

SomeMarine;

Clearly, considering the weight of opinion parallel to mine, the US military's reputation has been sullied. Rape, lies, premeditated murder and the backshooting of bound prisoners and torture are already tried and been proven. You don't think that that is reputation sullying ? All that training you have undergone hasn't helped you to think.

You are regurgitating the Haditha findings which I've already dismissed as a whitewash. However, this thread, and my comments which you take umbrage at, concerns another atrocity allegedly perpetrated by US marines, the slaughter of civilians in Afghanistan. You want to write off this one as 'collateral damage '?

Yes, I am touchy. Marines should get upset when we are compared to murderers. Like that shitbag squad that killed the old man for revenge. Those punk bitches should have been handed over to the insurgency for punishment. Them fucks are getting off light. Or, the punk that raped, killed, and then burned the girl. I'd volunteer to be the one to beat that bitch until I couldn't raise my arms.

However, these incidents have been vigorously prosecuted, and the Corps does not stand by, and let atrocities happen, as some are attempting to portray. I personally don't like the sentences these guys are getting, I feel they are very lenient, but at the same time, we do not sit by and just ignore shit when it happens.

thats the point that most of these soldier haters dont get

they are prosecuted and those that have worn the uniform do condemn the actioins of the few what have done criminal shit

but at the same time i never hear any of the doogooders on here who are the first to point a finger at a solider when they fuck up, ever point that finger at the murderous thugs who are killing civilians daily and torturing american soldiers somehow they justify their actions .... which makes me as usuall call them a fucking hypocrite

See, I agree. But at the same time, I understand Americanos stand. That is a luxury, as I am neutral. I see both views, understand them.
Marines are called worse than murderers quite ofen, because as you said, they are sent instead of the army corps, to accomplish a task.
But war as a whole still drags on.

Agreed.

When(more than if) I critizise the U.S. military, it becomes from the fact that you operate where locals don't want you, you are not on your own soil. And that U.S. troops cannot be taken to trial like any other soldier from any other nation.
My view is that your troops have no right to have such a shield. -But, I also understand the reasons for the shield.

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En uneksi. I do not dream.

Exactly, YOU have dismissed them as whitewash because it doesn't fit your personal belief, a belief that is not founded on personal experience, but garnered through inaccurate reports in the media, slanders cast by members of Congress, and outright lies by the insurgents.

YOU have never been there to see how the insurgents operate. YOU do not know that it is their mode of operation to fire from crowds of women and children, or choose to ignore the fact.

YOU do not know that their mode of operation is to trap families in their houses and then draw American forces in hoping the innocents get killed, or you choose to ignore this fact.

YOU do not know that they set up multiple stage co-ordinated ambushes, in populated areas, with someone holding a video camera, so that when we return fire, if someone in the crowd they INTENTIONALLY place themselves in gets hit, they can cry about American atrocities to the media, or, you choose to ignore that fact.

You DO however, bash us for their actions.

Yeah, we have, unfortunatly, killed innocents. Yes, there have no doubt been murders committed. There is no moralizing these things. They are bad, and I, and every Marine I know, wish they have not happened. However, we prosecute and jail those who commit these acts, when they are committed outside of what is established as lawfull.

frankly moon I for one could care less if you think our military has been sullied, in fact its hilarious.....and rich coming from you and you know why...please, get thee to a nunnery...

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No individual can plan his own existence in their view.

So the state planners must arrogate to themselves the right to manipulate any sector of the economic system if the good of “society” or the “general welfare” is paramount.

Ipso- if the rights of the individual get in the way, the rights of the individual must be sublimated.

The Road to Serfdom
FA Hayek (interpretation)

Thanks for the lucid response.

You are right, normally, when we do operate, it is not on our own soil, just like any other first world military. Just like other first world nations, we have a (mostly) competent civilian police force that is able to provide law enforcement, so there is no need for our military to keep the peace at home.

My country was smart enough to realize we could prosecute our own war criminals well enough, and didn't need to sign that sham of a UN proposed abortion.

I need to make a correction, it was the Khoren-Gal Valley that my Battalion was operating in when the Company Commander got the Bronze Star, and not the Kunar Valley. Sorry for the mix up.

incredibally awesome post marine

dad on he has not clue , but even if he did this poster would support , and has condoned the conduct of his heroes over there

their conduct is authorized due to the fact that he hates america