Visit the U.S. Politics Online Discussion Forum Archives!

Sponsored by:

U.S. Politics Online: A Political Discussion Forum  

Bookmark Us! E-Mail DONATE NOW! Photo Gallery Document Archives Quiz! Register to Vote!!!
Go Back   U.S. Politics Online: A Political Discussion Forum > Current Events > War & Peace
Register Blogs FAQ Members List Calendar Mark Forums Read

War & Peace A forum to discuss the current conflict with Iraq, North Korea, and the war on terrorism, as well as military/defense policy in general.

Reply
 
LinkBack Thread Tools Display Modes
  #91 (permalink)  
Old 01-10-2008
ThorHammer's Avatar
Moderator
Burgermeister Meisterburger

 
Member Since: Jan 2007
Location: What used to be America
Posts: 6,737

Minnesota     Germany

Re: Slaughter of Afghan civilians; Marine tribunal opens

Quote:
Originally Posted by SomeMarine View Post
I need to make a correction, it was the Khoren-Gal Valley that my Battalion was operating in when the Company Commander got the Bronze Star, and not the Kunar Valley. Sorry for the mix up.
did he get the V?
__________________
I am a liberal, a classical liberal. Classical liberalism is liberalism, but the current collectivists have captured that designation in the United States. In Europe they are glad enough to call themselves socialists. But no one in America wants to be called socialist and admit what they are.

Courage, Truth, Honor, Fidelity, Discipline, Hospitality, Industriousness, Self-Reliance, Perseverance
Reply With Quote
  #92 (permalink)  
Old 01-10-2008
moon's Avatar
President
caçador dos roedores

 
Member Since: Mar 2004
Location: Cyberia
Posts: 15,549

Portugal     Brazil

Re: Slaughter of Afghan civilians; Marine tribunal opens

SomeMarine;
Quote:
Exactly, YOU have dismissed them as whitewash because it doesn't fit your personal belief, a belief that is not founded on personal experience, but garnered through inaccurate reports in the media, slanders cast by members of Congress, and outright lies by the insurgents.
The media reports and the witness reports simply didn't fit the whitewash. You are guilty of exactly that of which you accuse me. There is a difference though. I don't have to explain, to an incredulous world, the dead women and kids, the bloodied bedrooms and the bodies full of American ordnance.

You didn't make any mention of the rape, torture, backshooting and premeditated murders. Reputation too sullied to bother ?

Imperator;
Quote:
.please, get thee to a nunnery...
Off topic , juvenile, ad hominem pap.
Reply With Quote
  #93 (permalink)  
Old 01-10-2008
Joint Chiefs of Staff Member

 
Member Since: Dec 2007
Location: US
Posts: 1,066

   
Re: Slaughter of Afghan civilians; Marine tribunal opens

Quote:
Originally Posted by ThorHammer View Post
did he get the V?
Yes, since it was for actual combat. The plain bronze star can be awarded for as little as administartive support, the V is what establishes it as regards to actions performed against the enemy.
Reply With Quote
  #94 (permalink)  
Old 01-10-2008
Fennica's Avatar
Secretary of Defense

 
Member Since: Mar 2004
Location: Finland
Posts: 3,247

Finland    
Re: Slaughter of Afghan civilians; Marine tribunal opens

Quote:
Originally Posted by SomeMarine View Post
Thanks for the lucid response.
You are most welcomed. Forest replies as you shout.

Quote:
You are right, normally, when we do operate, it is not on our own soil, just like any other first world military. Just like other first world nations, we have a (mostly) competent civilian police force that is able to provide law enforcement, so there is no need for our military to keep the peace at home.
But you are rare few who can't wait at home and fight a war when such an occation comes knocking on the doorstep.

Quote:
My country was smart enough to realize we could prosecute our own war criminals well enough, and didn't need to sign that sham of a UN proposed abortion.
So you feel that you are better than others and feel superiority in moral and customs? I can't see it like that.
__________________
En uneksi. I do not dream.
Reply With Quote
  #95 (permalink)  
Old 01-10-2008
moon's Avatar
President
caçador dos roedores

 
Member Since: Mar 2004
Location: Cyberia
Posts: 15,549

Portugal     Brazil

Re: Slaughter of Afghan civilians; Marine tribunal opens

It just makes for an easier whitewash. You can offer promotions to your own instead of cash to foreigners.
Reply With Quote
  #96 (permalink)  
Old 01-10-2008
ThorHammer's Avatar
Moderator
Burgermeister Meisterburger

 
Member Since: Jan 2007
Location: What used to be America
Posts: 6,737

Minnesota     Germany

Re: Slaughter of Afghan civilians; Marine tribunal opens

Quote:
Originally Posted by SomeMarine View Post
Yes, since it was for actual combat. The plain bronze star can be awarded for as little as administartive support, the V is what establishes it as regards to actions performed against the enemy.
I understand the difference, so that is why I asked.
__________________
I am a liberal, a classical liberal. Classical liberalism is liberalism, but the current collectivists have captured that designation in the United States. In Europe they are glad enough to call themselves socialists. But no one in America wants to be called socialist and admit what they are.

Courage, Truth, Honor, Fidelity, Discipline, Hospitality, Industriousness, Self-Reliance, Perseverance
Reply With Quote
  #97 (permalink)  
Old 01-10-2008
Joint Chiefs of Staff Member

 
Member Since: Dec 2007
Location: US
Posts: 1,066

   
Re: Slaughter of Afghan civilians; Marine tribunal opens

Quote:
Originally Posted by moon View Post
SomeMarine;


The media reports and the witness reports simply didn't fit the whitewash. You are guilty of exactly that of which you accuse me. There is a difference though. I don't have to explain, to an incredulous world, the dead women and kids, the bloodied bedrooms and the bodies full of American ordnance.

You didn't make any mention of the rape, torture, backshooting and premeditated murders. Reputation too sullied to bother ?

Imperator;


Off topic , juvenile, ad hominem pap.
I did indeed mention the rapes and murders, and said that they perpetrators are getting off lightly. Backshooting happens in war, no big deal, in my mind. If your gonna shoot and run without cover, be prepared to get hit where you get hit.

What torture? Remember, your beliefs don't mirror mine. Water-boarding? Hell, I water boarded myself last time I went to the beach. Abu-Ghraib? Those dumbass soldiers have been prosecuted and jailed also. But, it also my opinion that wasn't torture. Dumbass BS? Yes. Torture? No.
Reply With Quote
  #98 (permalink)  
Old 01-10-2008
Joint Chiefs of Staff Member

 
Member Since: Dec 2007
Location: US
Posts: 1,066

   
Re: Slaughter of Afghan civilians; Marine tribunal opens

Quote:
Originally Posted by Fennica View Post
You are most welcomed. Forest replies as you shout.

But you are rare few who can't wait at home and fight a war when such an occation comes knocking on the doorstep.

So you feel that you are better than others and feel superiority in moral and customs? I can't see it like that.
I haven't shouted anywhere.

As most other countries, or when another country or the UN begs us to pull their asses out of another sling. Yes, America has not always been altruistic in our actions, but for the most part we try to be.

Yes. And you shouldn't see it the same way I do. You should feel YOUR country is the best on the planet.
Reply With Quote
  #99 (permalink)  
Old 01-10-2008
Joint Chiefs of Staff Member

 
Member Since: Dec 2007
Location: US
Posts: 1,066

   
Re: Slaughter of Afghan civilians; Marine tribunal opens

Quote:
Originally Posted by ThorHammer View Post
I understand the difference, so that is why I asked.
Tracking ( now, that is )
Reply With Quote
  #100 (permalink)  
Old 01-10-2008
Imperator's Avatar
Moderator
Audiatur et altera pars!

 
Member Since: Sep 2006
Location: San Jose, Ca
Posts: 21,258

United_States    
Re: Slaughter of Afghan civilians; Marine tribunal opens

Quote:
Originally Posted by moon View Post
SomeMarine;


The media reports and the witness reports simply didn't fit the whitewash. You are guilty of exactly that of which you accuse me. There is a difference though. I don't have to explain, to an incredulous world, the dead women and kids, the bloodied bedrooms and the bodies full of American ordnance.

wow sounds like something that could have been written by an Israeli newspaper person after a rocket goes off regards terrorist responsibilities, why they are justified etc....good job moon, I'll keep this handy..



rest-
And as far a haditha…just one little tidbit for you…are you aware that the defense team could not go to haditha? They could not for themselves look at the forensic evidence, or the actual place the attack ocurred etc…That sound fair to you?….and your “media reports”… this is the very same media that has lost interest in the iraq because there aren’t enough bodies blowing up? As usual, you hang your hat on thin air…Do I have to go into the whole witness thing too?? I hope not…..
__________________

"The captain has turned off the `No Dubbing' sign. You are free to speak any language you choose."
Reply With Quote
  #101 (permalink)  
Old 01-10-2008
Fennica's Avatar
Secretary of Defense

 
Member Since: Mar 2004
Location: Finland
Posts: 3,247

Finland    
Re: Slaughter of Afghan civilians; Marine tribunal opens

Quote:
Originally Posted by SomeMarine View Post
I haven't shouted anywhere.
Oh, that is a verbal expression we use. It has little to do with actual shouting.

Quote:
As most other countries, or when another country or the UN begs us to pull their asses out of another sling. Yes, America has not always been altruistic in our actions, but for the most part we try to be.
There is a sad unbalance to many yanks(and that is another thing not to get offended, here U.S. folk are called simply; jenkki) when they look at the UN. The United Nations are composed of all nations, bashing them is to bash all nations, including your own.
Succesful UN actions are not taken into account often, failed ones are.

Quote:
Yes. And you shouldn't see it the same way I do. You should feel YOUR country is the best on the planet.
On many measurements, it is.
I despise my nations military leaders and their incompitant actions, I don't trust our Goverment, I have serious doubts about our President and I see that Parliament is a failure once more. -And I'd defend my nation against any foe.
It's OK to be critical, but must also be able to carry responsibility.
__________________
En uneksi. I do not dream.
Reply With Quote
  #102 (permalink)  
Old 01-10-2008
Joint Chiefs of Staff Member

 
Member Since: Dec 2007
Location: US
Posts: 1,066

   
Re: Slaughter of Afghan civilians; Marine tribunal opens

Quote:
Originally Posted by Fennica View Post
1... Oh, that is a verbal expression we use. It has little to do with actual shouting.

2...here is a sad unbalance to many yanks(and that is another thing not to get offended, here U.S. folk are called simply; jenkki) when they look at the UN. The United Nations are composed of all nations, bashing them is to bash all nations, including your own.
Succesful UN actions are not taken into account often, failed ones are.

3....On many measurements, it is.
I despise my nations military leaders and their incompitant actions, I don't trust our Goverment, I have serious doubts about our President and I see that Parliament is a failure once more. -And I'd defend my nation against any foe.
It's OK to be critical, but must also be able to carry responsibility.
1. Alrighty. Not familiar with where you are from.

2. No offense taken, hell, we have our own little kiddie song about Yanks. Agreed on the UN. They do a swell job of feeding people and raising awareness about certain subjects, not so great at most other things. ( in my opinion )

3. Agreed, it is every humans duty to disagree with injustices, percieved or actual.
Reply With Quote
  #103 (permalink)  
Old 01-10-2008
moon's Avatar
President
caçador dos roedores

 
Member Since: Mar 2004
Location: Cyberia
Posts: 15,549

Portugal     Brazil

Re: Slaughter of Afghan civilians; Marine tribunal opens

Some Marine;
Quote:
Backshooting happens in war, no big deal, in my mind. If your gonna shoot and run without cover, be prepared to get hit where you get hit.
No, we're talking about bound prisoners of war being backshot by their marine captors. Disgusted at the thought ? I should hope so.
Reply With Quote
  #104 (permalink)  
Old 01-10-2008
Joint Chiefs of Staff Member

 
Member Since: Dec 2007
Location: US
Posts: 1,066

   
Re: Slaughter of Afghan civilians; Marine tribunal opens

Quote:
Originally Posted by moon View Post
Some Marine;


No, we're talking about bound prisoners of war being backshot by their marine captors. Disgusted at the thought ? I should hope so.
Is this related to the Fallujah action? If it is, I have a little tid-bit of info for you on that one. While the actions technically met the rules of engagement, and technically fit in with the Law of Land Warfare, it certainly wasn't what I would have done.
Do I condone it? No, I don't.
Disgusted by it? Once again, no.
Reply With Quote
  #105 (permalink)  
Old 01-10-2008
Secretary of State

 
Member Since: Feb 2007
Location: Southern Oregon
Posts: 5,653

   
Re: Slaughter of Afghan civilians; Marine tribunal opens

Quote:
Originally Posted by SomeMarine View Post
Standing for what you believe in is having a strong will. It would be courageous if he stuck to it while being tortured for his beliefs.

Wisdom comes from experience. Any fool can blindly believe an untested opinion.
Again, why would I willfully put myself in a position of having people attempting to torture and/or kill me? I chose a vocation I felt would offer me the best rewards I was capable of achieving and can assure you, thanks to older people advising me, emotion was completely removed from that decision.

When counseling people seeking advice on their path in life I find it intellectually dishonest to consider recommending a vocation where they put their life at risk when commanded to do so with no input or decision as to the logic and reasoning behind such commands. You chose such a vocation and yet refuse any criticism of the orders you follow, preferring to defer criticism with statements of 'people should do what I do to understand what I do' with seemingly no understanding that a majority of any population prefers to avoid what you do. As your vocation requires you unquestionably following someone else's orders without your input or opinion, why do you feel it necessary to emotionally defend those orders when someone disagrees with the intent and results of following those orders? You're not personally responsible for anything but following and executing someone else's orders, a job you chose.
Reply With Quote
Reply

Bookmarks

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are On



All times are GMT -7. The time now is 09:19 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.3
Copyright ©2000 - 2009, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
SEO by vBSEO 3.2.0
Copyright © 2000 - 2009 U.S. Politics Online