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War & Peace A forum to discuss the current conflict with Iraq, North Korea, and the war on terrorism, as well as military/defense policy in general.

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  #106 (permalink)  
Old 02-28-2008
Imperator's Avatar
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Audiatur et altera pars!

 
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Re: Report; Zionist assassins bomb sleeping civilians.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Frank View Post
I hate to do this but I have to call "nobody' on plagiarism; when someone omits a source they tend to do so for a reason! The above quote is not from "nobody" but from neo-conservative Zionist John Podhoretz:

Teach Kids Peace – Palestinian Children Under Fire

The above website is a part of a Zionist media outfit that is openly pro-Israel! Is it not strange how Zionists cannot defend Israel without using Zionist propaganda or Wikipedia? Even "nobody" likely knew his source was shoddy as he chose to omit the link to the source...
Easy on the outrage….so he forgot a link ,,,,I have too so have others......I don't jump to assumptions or make accusations, that he or anyone is attempting to rob another’s words... shit happens…

And so what if its pro Israel…..it appears you are pro Palestinian and use sources that can be seen as such? …so?
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  #107 (permalink)  
Old 02-28-2008
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Re: Report; Zionist assassins bomb sleeping civilians.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Frank View Post
This cartoon comes to mind when I see folks like you treating such indiscriminate bomb attacks by Israel as merely inflicting collateral damage:

the pic won't display...damn....
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  #108 (permalink)  
Old 02-28-2008
Vice President

 
Member Since: Jun 2004
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Re: Report; Zionist assassins bomb sleeping civilians.

Quote:
Originally Posted by nobody View Post
two examples by image of just such a circumstance:
Israel would have the right to shoot at the combatant; they have no right to do things like this...

From International Court of Justice Ad Hoc Judge Dr. John Dugard:

Quote:
8. Between 25 June 2006 and the truce that came into force at the end of November 2006, over 400 Palestinians were killed and some 1,500 injured. More than half of those killed and wounded were civilians. Of those killed some 90 were children; and over 300 children were injured. During the same period 3 Israeli soldiers were killed and 18 wounded, and 2 Israeli civilians were killed and some 30 injured in Sderot and its precincts by Qassam rockets fired by Palestinians from Gaza.

9. In the course of Operations "Summer Rains" and "Autumn Clouds" the IDF carried out 364 military incursions into different parts of Gaza, accompanied by persistent artillery shelling and air-to-surface missile attacks. Missiles, shells and bulldozers destroyed, or caused serious damage to, homes, schools, hospitals, mosques, public buildings, bridges, water pipelines and sewage networks. On 27 June 2006, the Israeli Air Force destroyed all six transformers of the only domestic power plant in the Gaza Strip, which supplied 43 per cent of Gaza's daily electricity. This resulted in depriving half of the population of Gaza of electricity for several months. (At the time of writing, this power plant had been largely repaired, thanks to generous funding from the Governments of Egypt and Sweden, and is now able to provide 85 per cent of the electricity previously supplied.) Citrus groves and agricultural lands were levelled by bulldozers, and in the first phase of "Operation Summer Rains" F-16s flew low over Gaza, breaking the sound barrier and causing widespread terror among the population. Thousands of Palestinians were displaced from their homes as a result of Israel's military action. Israel justified its assault on Gaza on three grounds: the search for Corporal Shalit, the eradication of militant groups and their arms, and, above all, the stopping of Qassam rockets that have been regularly and repeatedly fired from Northern Gaza into civilian areas in Southern Israel.

10. Beit Hanoun in Northern Gaza, with a population of 40,000, was subjected to particularly vicious military action in November in the course of "Operation Autumn Clouds". During a six-day incursion 82 Palestinians, at least half of whom were civilians (including 21 children), were killed by the IDF. More than 260 people, including 60 children, were injured and hundreds of males between the ages of 16 and 40 were arrested. Forty thousand residents were confined to their homes as a result of a curfew as Israeli tanks and bulldozers rampaged through their town, destroying 279 homes, an 850-year-old mosque, public buildings, electricity networks, schools and hospitals, levelling orchards and digging up roads, water mains and sewage networks. In April 2006, the IDF narrowed the "safety zone" for artillery shelling, allowing targeting much closer to homes and populated areas. This, together with heavy artillery fire, contributed substantially to the increase in the loss of life and damage to property. There was also evidence of the use of a new and unusual weapon in Beit Hanoun, and elsewhere in Gaza, which has resulted in an increase in amputations. This weapon is believed to be the Dense Inert Metal Explosive missile (DIME).

http://domino.un.org/unispal.nsf/361...a!OpenDocument
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  #109 (permalink)  
Old 02-28-2008
Vice President

 
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Re: Report; Zionist assassins bomb sleeping civilians.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Imperator View Post
And so what if its pro Israel…..it appears you are pro Palestinian and use sources that can be seen as such? …so?
If reports from respected human rights organisations and even a ruling from the International Court of Justice is viewed as "pro-Palestinian" because they tell the truth I would have to question the motives of those whom view them as such...
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  #110 (permalink)  
Old 02-28-2008
Citizen

 
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Re: Report; Zionist assassins bomb sleeping civilians.

Quote:
Where do you get this 7,000 number? According to the United Nations Office for the Coordination for Humanitarian Affairs; 2,696 Qassams were fired from Gaza from 2004 to late 2007...
ah, once again my laziness is showing. thank you.

Quote:
More than 7,000 Kassam rockets and mortars have been fired at Jewish communities in the western Negev since the beginning of the Oslo War in 2000, also known as the Second Intifada. Most have exploded in the city of Sderot, prompting 20 percent of the population to abandon their homes and a significant number of businesses to relocate.
Livni: Israel Won't Agree to a PA State With Gaza - Defense/Middle East - Israel News - Arutz Sheva
********************************
Quote:
Jan 24, 2008 18:58 | Updated Jan 25, 2008 11:15 Balloon for each Kassam on UN doorstep
As the United Nations Security Council debated a response to the situation in the Gaza Strip and Sderot, Israel's New York Consulate held a protest in front of UN headquarters on Thursday, in which they placed 4,200 red balloons on the UN's doorstep. The number of balloons signified the 4,200 Kassam rockets fired into Israel from Gaza since the 2005 disengagement from the Strip.
source

note the published date of " Jan 25, 2008 ", that means a full month on kassams not registered. i would guess the total number since disengagement about 5000 or so. a significant number since israel rendered itself jew free in the gaza.
**************************

this is a good observation:

Quote:
Civilians have the right to use themselves as shields to protect their homes; if people choose to use themselves as a shield to defend their lands against attack they have a right to do so...
retort:
Quote:
okay then...so collateral damage should be no surprise....the attacks themselves are , in your eyes and in mine in some cases illegal or unnecessary……but in the end, if you stay in a home that was making bombs, harboring militants and its bulldozed or bombed…then?
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  #111 (permalink)  
Old 02-28-2008
Vice President

 
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Re: Report; Zionist assassins bomb sleeping civilians.

Quote:
Originally Posted by nobody View Post
ah, once again my laziness is showing. thank you.
The 7,000 number is disputed by the United Nations and I am inclined to take their word before that of a pro-Israel source like "Jpost." Since disengagement 7,000 rockets have not been fired...

Quote:
note the published date of " Jan 25, 2008 ", that means a full month on kassams not registered. i would guess the total number since disengagement about 5000 or so. a significant number since israel rendered itself jew free in the gaza.
According to the UN a little over 2,600+ were fired between 2004 and late 2007. In addition to this attacks in the first two months of 2008 at best would bring the number to 2,800 depending on the source used.

Second, Israel has not relinquished control over Gaza; Gaza is not "Jew free."

III. THE OCCUPATION OF GAZA

11. The test for determining whether a territory is occupied under international law is effective control,8 and not the permanent physical presence of the occupying Power's military forces in the territory in question. Judged by this test it is clear that Israel remains the occupying Power as technological developments have made it possible for Israel to assert control over the people of Gaza without a permanent military presence.9 Israel's effective control is demonstrated by the following factors:

(a) Substantial control of Gaza's six land crossings: the Erez crossing is effectively closed to Palestinians wishing to cross to Israel or the West Bank. The Rafah crossing between Egypt and Gaza, which is regulated by the Agreement on Movement and Access entered into between Israel and the Palestinian Authority on 15 November 2005 (brokered by the United States, the European Union and the international community's envoy for the Israeli disengagement from Gaza), has been closed by Israel for lengthy periods since June 2006. The main crossing for goods at Karni is strictly controlled by Israel and since June 2006 this crossing too has been largely closed, with disastrous consequences for the Palestinian economy;

(b) Control through military incursions, rocket attacks and sonic booms: sections of Gaza have been declared "no-go" zones in which residents will be shot if they enter;

(c) Complete control of Gaza's airspace and territorial waters;

(d) Control of the Palestinian Population Registry: the definition of who is "Palestinian" and who is a resident of Gaza and the West Bank is controlled by the Israeli military. Even when the Rafah crossing is open, only holders of Palestinian identity cards can enter Gaza through the crossing; therefore control over the Palestinian Population Registry is also control over who may enter and leave Gaza. Since 2000, with few exceptions, Israel has not permitted additions to the Palestinian Population Registry.

The fact that Gaza remains occupied territory means that Israel's actions towards Gaza must be measured against the standards of international humanitarian law.


A/HRC/7/17 of 21 January 2008

Quote:
retort:
There is nothing to retort; voluntary human shields who do not attack any target are protected persons under international law and they should be treated humanely. However, I have little evidence that the Palestinians routinely use human shields. I have plenty of evidence though that Israel uses indiscrimate bombing tactics under the guise that they were attacking sites shielded by civilians.

Last edited by Frank; 02-28-2008 at 10:24 AM.
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  #112 (permalink)  
Old 02-28-2008
President

 
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Re: Report; Zionist assassins bomb sleeping civilians.

Quote:
Originally Posted by moon View Post
Gaza is tiny and the most densely populated place on earth....
Seriously, when you want to state something that is so easily confirmed or refuted, try pating a bit of attnetion to detail. It only lends credibility, which would be helpful for you.

List of countries by population density - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

The Palestinian territories are 13th in population density, behind Monaco, The Vatican, Hong Kong, Singapore, etc.
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  #113 (permalink)  
Old 02-28-2008
Vice President

 
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Re: Report; Zionist assassins bomb sleeping civilians.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Si modo View Post
Seriously, when you want to state something that is so easily confirmed or refuted, try pating a bit of attnetion to detail. It only lends credibility, which would be helpful for you.

List of countries by population density - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

The Palestinian territories are 13th in population density, behind Monaco, The Vatican, Hong Kong, Singapore, etc.
The Palestinian territories would include the West Bank and East Jerusalem; Moon is referring to Gaza alone...
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  #114 (permalink)  
Old 02-28-2008
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Re: Report; Zionist assassins bomb sleeping civilians.

Quote:
Seriously, when you want to state something that is so easily confirmed or refuted, try pating a bit of attnetion to detail. It only lends credibility, which would be helpful for you.

List of countries by population density - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

The Palestinian territories are 13th in population density, behind Monaco, The Vatican, Hong Kong, Singapore, etc.
What is this, dummer week ? I said GAZA. It's not quite as crowded as yesterday though, if the Zionists have killed more kids and babies than have been born in the waterless and electricity-scarce hospitals.

Frank;
Quote:
The Palestinian territories would include the West Bank and East Jerusalem
Right.
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  #115 (permalink)  
Old 02-28-2008
President

 
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Re: Report; Zionist assassins bomb sleeping civilians.

K. Now that I have read the entire thread, I am reminded of meth-heads who blow themselves up when trying to synthesize methylamphetamine. Amatuers playing with stuff they shouldn't be and paying a dear price for it.

It's silly to continue to argue that this is an Israeli airstrike when there is not enough evidence or even any evidence that it is the case.

But, it is amusing to continue to watch the nonsense used to "prove" that it is an Israeli airstrike.

When the investigation is completed, will we see any retractions? As Pram said, we will suffocate holding our breath.
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  #116 (permalink)  
Old 02-28-2008
Vice President

 
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Re: Report; Zionist assassins bomb sleeping civilians.

Quote:
Originally Posted by moon View Post
Right.
The population density of the Gaza Strip is as follows:

Quote:
Gaza Strip - Population Density: (2005) 10578.6 per sq. mi.

What is the population density per sq mi for Gaza Strip? --  Britannica Online Encyclopedia
Assuming the Wikipedia article is correct and I do not trust Wikipedia as a rule Gaza would be ranked 3rd in the world on the population density per square km scale...
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  #117 (permalink)  
Old 02-28-2008
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Re: Report; Zionist assassins bomb sleeping civilians.

That's close enough to make my point. Emptying the Zionist dungeons might move them up a place.


.....and that's without the 5-6 million in the refugee diaspora waiting to get back in.
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  #118 (permalink)  
Old 02-28-2008
Vice President

 
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Re: Report; Zionist assassins bomb sleeping civilians.

Quote:
Originally Posted by moon View Post
That's close enough to make my point.
Gaza is clearly one of the most densely populated places in the world; this is a fact regardless of whether they are ranked 1st or 3rd.
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  #119 (permalink)  
Old 02-28-2008
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Re: Report; Zionist assassins bomb sleeping civilians.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Si modo View Post
It's silly to continue to argue that this is an Israeli airstrike when there is not enough evidence or even any evidence that it is the case.
It's actually quite effective. Note, that many people bought it on page one without critical examination, and nobody (the user) seems to have taken it on faith here lately. Meanwhile, continually bumping the thread keeps the unsupported assertion at the top of the forum. As we've seen, many people will just believe it because it is the thread title. Brilliant from a propagandizing perspective.

Glad you took the time to read the thread though.
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  #120 (permalink)  
Old 02-28-2008
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Re: Report; Zionist assassins bomb sleeping civilians.

The latest Zionist missile strikes have been equally callous in their contempt for civilians. The m.o. is instantly recognisable.
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