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War & Peace A forum to discuss the current conflict with Iraq, North Korea, and the war on terrorism, as well as military/defense policy in general.

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  #16 (permalink)  
Old 04-02-2008
Fidei Defensor's Avatar
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Re: BBC documentary: Al Qeada essentially faricated and doesn't exist

Quote:
Originally Posted by Danny View Post
The notion of a worldwide network of operatives was fabricated. Bin Laden was loosely affiliated with some other movements around the world but none of them take orders from him. It was propped up and spun quite brilliantly to incite fear.
Al Qaeda commits terrorist attacks to incite fear. And I don't think as much fear has been incited as you'd like to believe.

Quote:
Thats what the documentary says. I think it offers some compelling evidence to support its claim and is worth a watch.
I'd rather watch the Wizard of Oz with Dark Side of the Moon on loop.
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  #17 (permalink)  
Old 04-02-2008
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Re: BBC documentary: Al Qeada essentially faricated and doesn't exist

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Originally Posted by Steve View Post
Huh?

Your entire premise for this thread is that they don't even exist.

Which is it?
No. My premise is to invite people to watch the video with good arguments. The video's premise is to suggest the Al Qaeda in the way Bush describes it never existed and the truth is that Al Qaeda was very small and has since been all but incapacitated.
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  #18 (permalink)  
Old 04-02-2008
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Re: BBC documentary: Al Qeada essentially faricated and doesn't exist

Quote:
Originally Posted by Danny View Post
No. My premise is to invite people to watch the video with good arguments. The video's premise is to suggest the Al Qaeda in the way Bush describes it never existed and the truth is that Al Qaeda was very small and has since been all but incapacitated.
This is from your OP:

Quote:
What do you think about this BBC documentary that essentially says Bin Laden was never more than a leader of a few thugs and that Al Qaeda doesn't exist?
Now, maybe you're just a bit more adept than I at seeing things that don't exist, but nowhere in that statement does it say anything about Bush.

Nowhere.

Please point it out to all of us "unseeing" types because, really, it's not there.

Oh, or is this going to be another one of those threads where you just keep changing what you say as others point out the glaringly obvious flaws in the positions you take?

I truly suspect that will be the case...
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  #19 (permalink)  
Old 04-02-2008
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Re: BBC documentary: Al Qeada essentially faricated and doesn't exist

Oh, and this is just absolutely false (quoted from your source):

Al-qaeda is a total and complete fabrication, never having existed at any time.

Anyone who believes that is a total and complete fool. We knew about Al-Qaeda before George Bush ever left Texas. The suggestion that it's something that Bush and his administration came up with is absolutely fucking absurd...
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  #20 (permalink)  
Old 04-02-2008
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Re: BBC documentary: Al Qeada essentially faricated and doesn't exist

Quote:
Originally Posted by Steve View Post
This is from your OP:



Now, maybe you're just a bit more adept than I at seeing things that don't exist, but nowhere in that statement does it say anything about Bush.

Nowhere.

Please point it out to all of us "unseeing" types because, really, it's not there.

Oh, or is this going to be another one of those threads where you just keep changing what you say as others point out the glaringly obvious flaws in the positions you take?

I truly suspect that will be the case...
As Danny say al Qaida as Bush describes, the mention of Bush in the above article is not necessary. That's called reading comprehension. But others have found that Bush's description of al Qaeda is incorrect.

Quote:
Is it conceivable that Al Qaeda, as defined by President Bush as the center of a vast and well-organized international terrorist conspiracy, does not exist?
Is Al Qaeda Just a Bush Boogeyman?
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  #21 (permalink)  
Old 04-02-2008
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Re: BBC documentary: Al Qeada essentially faricated and doesn't exist

Quote:
Originally Posted by AshleyKennedy View Post
As Danny say al Qaida as Bush describes, the mention of Bush in the above article is not necessary.
I really have to wonder how someone would leap to the baseless and idiotic conclusion that the OP concerned George Bush, seeing as his name wasn't mentioned.

Why Bush?

Why not Blair?

Why not my mechanic?

Why not your mechanic?

The only purpose of this thread is for Danny to whine some more about Bush.

I honestly believe that Danny is too smart to believe that Al Qaeda never existed, which is stated here (quoted from Danny's source): Al-qaeda is a total and complete fabrication, never having existed at any time.

That doesn't say anything about "...at any time as George Bush describes it". It's specific in saying that they never existed at all. Ever. To any degree.

That's what "total and complete" means...
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  #22 (permalink)  
Old 04-02-2008
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Re: BBC documentary: Al Qeada essentially faricated and doesn't exist

Quote:
Originally Posted by Steve quoting Danny
Al-qaeda is a total and complete fabrication, never having existed at any time.
Indeed.

There is no known reference of any kind to any "al-queda" prior to 9/11 from any known source.
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  #23 (permalink)  
Old 04-02-2008
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Re: BBC documentary: Al Qeada essentially faricated and doesn't exist

Quote:
Originally Posted by White Rabbit View Post
Indeed.

There is no known reference of any kind to any "al-queda" prior to 9/11 from any known source.
So, are you're saying they didn't exist before then?

Right.

Enjoy:

Al-Qaeda

Al-Qaeda (also al-Qaida or al-Qa'ida or al-Qa'idah) (Arabic: القاعدة‎; transliteration: al-qā‘idah; translation: The Base) is an international alliance of Islamic militant organizations founded in 1988

The name 'al-Qaeda' was established a long time ago by mere chance. The late Abu Ebeida El-Banashiri established the training camps for our mujahedeen against Russia's terrorism. We used to call the training camp al-Qaeda. The name stayed.
- Osama Bin Laden

The name appears with the spelling "al-Qaida" in an executive order issued by President Bill Clinton in 1998, less than two weeks after the bombings of the U.S. embassies in Kenya and Tanzania

From approximately 1992 to 1996, al-Qaeda and bin Laden were located in Sudan, coming at the invitation of Islamist theoritician Hassan al Turabi following an Islamist coup d'etat, and leaving after being expelled by the Sudanese government


Now, I don't want to belabor a point, but every single one of those is prior to 9/11...

Last edited by Steve; 04-02-2008 at 02:13 PM.
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  #24 (permalink)  
Old 04-02-2008
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Re: BBC documentary: Al Qeada essentially faricated and doesn't exist

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Originally Posted by White Rabbit View Post
There is no known reference of any kind to any "al-queda" prior to 9/11 from any known source.


For one example, see the 1998 indictment against Usama bin Laden: http://cns.miis.edu/pubs/reports/pdf...den/indict.pdf (See paragraph 1.)
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  #25 (permalink)  
Old 04-02-2008
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Re: BBC documentary: Al Qeada essentially faricated and doesn't exist

Quote:
Originally Posted by Fidei Defensor View Post


For one example, see the 1998 indictment against Usama bin Laden: http://cns.miis.edu/pubs/reports/pdf...den/indict.pdf (See paragraph 1.)
http://www.gwu.edu/~nsarchiv/NSAEBB/...rke%20memo.pdf
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  #26 (permalink)  
Old 04-02-2008
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Re: BBC documentary: Al Qeada essentially faricated and doesn't exist

Quote:
Originally Posted by AshleyKennedy View Post
Yes, there's another. Thanks.
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  #27 (permalink)  
Old 04-02-2008
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Re: BBC documentary: Al Qeada essentially faricated and doesn't exist

Quote:
Originally Posted by Fidei Defensor View Post


For one example, see the 1998 indictment against Usama bin Laden: http://cns.miis.edu/pubs/reports/pdf...den/indict.pdf (See paragraph 1.)
Interesting. Thanks.
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  #28 (permalink)  
Old 04-02-2008
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Re: BBC documentary: Al Qeada essentially faricated and doesn't exist

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Originally Posted by White Rabbit View Post
Interesting. Thanks.
Sure.
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  #29 (permalink)  
Old 04-02-2008
President

 
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Re: BBC documentary: Al Qeada essentially faricated and doesn't exist

Quote:
Originally Posted by Steve View Post
So, are you're saying they didn't exist before then?
Actually, he said "There is no known reference of any kind to any 'al-queda' prior to 9/11 from any known source."
Quote:
Right.

Enjoy:

Al-Qaeda
Looking at the earliest history of that wikipedia source, it appears as though it was first created in:
(cur) (last) 23:47, 1 November 2001 208.60.199.xxx (Talk)

That is after 9/11 (11 September 2001). This, on wikipedia, it appears as though it was first referenced (in a major way, at least) AFTER 9/11.
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  #30 (permalink)  
Old 04-02-2008
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Re: BBC documentary: Al Qeada essentially faricated and doesn't exist

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Originally Posted by Slon View Post
Actually, he said "There is no known reference of any kind to any 'al-queda' prior to 9/11 from any known source."

Looking at the earliest history of that wikipedia source, it appears as though it was first created in:
(cur) (last) 23:47, 1 November 2001 208.60.199.xxx (Talk)

That is after 9/11 (11 September 2001). This, on wikipedia, it appears as though it was first referenced (in a major way, at least) AFTER 9/11.
If that's true, how was Bill Clinton signing an executive order regarding "Al Qaida" in 1998?
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