He's threatened to use force against Iran if they attack Israel, he's threatened to use force "if" Iranian boats attack American warships, he's "refused to rule out the use of force" in regard to resolving the Iranian nuclear program/threat.

Essentially he's making the same kind of threats Iran is making.

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...Old Europe, a once-dominant region now reduced to sucking at the geopolitical teat of America... they spent the better part of the last millennium conquering the world and taking the good stuff home with them... And what do they get for their troubles? Ungrateful colonies demanding their independence. And after you taught them how to play cricket!...

-Jon Stewart

There is also news that ısrael has been training American soldiers in Iraq. Especially on how to torture...

Israel also trained extremist elements of the Brit police in the art of killing first and questioning later. The program is called 'KRATOS'. RIP Jean Charles Menezes.

http://www.globalresearch.ca/index.p...&articleId=732

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668.....the neighbour of the beast.

Yanqui, go home.

Both actually.

The bottom line is that this is a hypothetical conversation on my part. There are elements of truth to what I'm using as evidence in defense of my argument, and there are hypotheticals derived from Wisdom Seeker's suggestion that Iran/Syria/other Middle Eastern nations wage war on America in Iraq.

Iran is officialy training and supporting the Iraqi insurgency and they're allowing terrorists and insurgents to use Iran as a safe haven as well as a route to transport people, money, and arms into Iraq. That's all documented.

But, as far as I know, Iran hasn't officially sent any components of their military/intelligence services in to Iraq to kill Americans outright. They may have done so, they may not have, but there isn't any information that can be used to accuse Iranian soldiers or agents of directly and personally killing Americans under orders of the Iranian government. We know that Iranians are in Iraq as terrorists/foreign-insurgents, the same as Saudi Arabians, Chechnyans, Algerians, and Jordanians are. But they're not there in an official government capacity and that makes a world of difference.

So there are elements of truth to what I'm suggesting but I'm also speaking hypothetically in regard to Wisdom Seekers suggestion that Iraq's neighbors should band together in an effort to militarially drive the Infidel out of the Middle East.

If it comes to that, as he suggests it should, then I would consider Iran's actions a threat to America and I would support the use of any and all measures to reduce that threat.

As moon alludes to below, Iran clearly has a justifiable reason to attack Americans in Iraq:

And I'm not disagreeing with him. Iran does have a justifiable reason to attack Americans in Iraq and I agree with him that America would feel the same way if Iran was occupying Mexico.

But (there's always a but), as justified as Iran would be in making those attacks, America would also be justified in responding to them on Iranian (or Syrian or Egyptian, or any) soil, if necessary.

My point is that the pros and cons of any Iranian coalition action need to be weighed in light of the fact that any overt action on their part could be used as grounds to escalate the war on America's part.

If Iran wants that, then that's Iran's decission.

But as an American who currently opposes any military action against Iran on the part of the United States - the introduction of Iranian military units into the Iraq war would change my mind.

In that case I would support destroying Iran by any means necessary.

Shock & Awe Terhan. I'd support going after their military, their military industrial complex, and their economy.

But I don't support occupying them any more than I support occupying Iraq.

I think we should pull out of Iraq as quickly as possible. But we're not going to. Definately not under Bush, probably not under whoever replaces him.

So as long as we're there I think any nation that wants to kill Americans is fair game.

I'm in favor of leaving Iran alone until they attack us.

I don't mind them financing Iraq, and I don't mind them equipping Iraq. I'm even willing to look the other way as guys like Gen. Suleimani influence the political situation against American intrests in Iraq, as he's so successfully done, or as Pasdaran al Quds teams train Iraqi insurgent groups.

I'm willing to overlook all that.

But if Iran attacks us first I support taking their nuclear program back to the stone age. Or doing whatever else is necessary.

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...Old Europe, a once-dominant region now reduced to sucking at the geopolitical teat of America... they spent the better part of the last millennium conquering the world and taking the good stuff home with them... And what do they get for their troubles? Ungrateful colonies demanding their independence. And after you taught them how to play cricket!...

-Jon Stewart

Is it possible that Israel is actively taking part in the combats in Iraq?

Because that would make Iran's intervention (if any) quite legitimate.

As I said, I don't condemn training.

If anyone does have a problem with the Israelis or their allies because of the training they provide each other they can take it up with Israel and her allies.

But personally I don't support going after Iran because of cross-training. We train with our allies all the time, even during war time. If Iran chooses to train with her allies during wartime that's her business. I'm willing to overlook the fact that Iran didn't really consider herself Iraq's ally until after America invaded Iraq, I understand what's happening and I'm fine with it.

If Iranians want to train insurgents in Iraq they can have at it. If prominent Iraqi clerics want to go to Iran to "study" that's on them.

If Iran wants to go after Israel for training Americans or Brits that's Iran's decission to make but I can see why they don't (accept to the degree that they support Hizballah).

But I think if Israelis were in Iraq actively killing Iranians and Iraqis we would have seen a more concerted effort on the part of Iran.

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...Old Europe, a once-dominant region now reduced to sucking at the geopolitical teat of America... they spent the better part of the last millennium conquering the world and taking the good stuff home with them... And what do they get for their troubles? Ungrateful colonies demanding their independence. And after you taught them how to play cricket!...

-Jon Stewart

Documented by the American government to support self serving national interests, or documented by more impartial sources? I think one of the things to be mindful of is that after the fabricated and false American intelligence reports relating to Iraq's alleged Weapons of Mass Destruction, the USA simply doesn't have very much credibility left in the rest of the international community. So if the documentation you are referring to in order to show Iranian involvement in these activities are documents created and presented by the US government, then I am leery to say the least.

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I sometimes post on OzChess as well, but mostly here

Well said.

WS.

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"You can't separate peace from freedom because no one can be at peace unless he has his freedom"- Malcom X

Don't we prepare to assault on Iran because of her support of the militia and the resistance?

We better add Israel to the list:



Ass lickers of Israel, W coming first, should have already taken this into consideration... Hearing W bark from the Mountain of Zion have sent cold currents down to my spine. He looked quite radical there; as if another Menachem Begin came to life...

actually the US signed and ratified this treaty making it the "Supreme Law of the Land"

What's legal is self defense, wars of aggression are outlawed.

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“The thought of his being president sends a cold chill down my spine.”

Senator Thad Cochran, Mississippi (R)
on McCain

“I decided I didn’t want this guy anywhere near a trigger.”
Senator Pete Domenici, New Mexico (R)
on McCain

“My anger did not help my campaign ... People don’t like angry candidates very much.”

McCain on McCain

Thank you Wisdom Seeker.

Its not often that one completely cleans soot's clock in a single paragraph, so its something of an achievement.

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I sometimes post on OzChess as well, but mostly here

I always snicker at the concept of nation's holding each other "legally" responsible. Don't get me wrong it is a good and noble ideal but it is a pipe dream. The sad truth is that while might doesn't make right, in international relations, it does let you do what you want.

It's an old story.

It's what exercise turning point was about:-

March 2008: Israel announces Exercise Turning Point 2 the largest exercise in Israeli history.

Syrians deployed three divisions — two armoured, one mechanized — to the Lebanese-Syrian border in the Bekaa Valley, the western part of which is Hizb’allah’s stronghold. The Syrians didn’t appear to be aggressive. Rather, they deployed these forces in a defensive posture, in a way walling off their part of the valley.

Israeli Defence Minister Ehud Barak cancelled a scheduled visit to Germany this week. The cancellation came immediately after the reports of the Syrian military redeployment were released.

A mystery in the Middle East

Thursday 3rd April 2008: Israel on Thursday played down media reports of heightened tension along the Syrian border, insisting there was little likelihood of military confrontation between the two neighbours.
“Israel has no intention of attacking Syria, and the latter says only it is ready to respond to any attack, so the risk of a military confrontation is very low,” said Deputy Prime Minister Haim Ramon.
His comments came as Israeli newspapers splashed front-page stories claiming the military was on high alert after Syria reportedly boosted its deployment near the border and called up reserves.
The Jerusalem Post said increased tension along the frontier, as well as in the Gaza Strip, led Defence Minister Ehud Barak to cancel a planned visit to Germany, though a spokesman said the decision was linked to a planned home front defence exercise next week.
Spokesman Shlomo Dror said that Syria has staged military manoeuvres and made other preparations for possible confrontation in the event Hezbollah seeks to avenge the Feb 12 killing in Damascus of its military leader Imad Mugnieh, which the militia blames on Israel.
Little risk of conflict with Syria: Israel -DAWN - International; April 04, 2008
http://www.jpost.com/servlet/Satellite?cid=1206632390147&pagename=JPost%2FJPArt icle%2FPrinter

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"You believe what you want
I'll believe what I know"

Kevin Spacey Midnight in the garden of good and evil

Et lucis ćterne beatitudine perfrui.

Hizb’Allah 3: USrael 0

Forcing Zionist entity to withdraw from most of Southern Lenbanon it occupied for more than 18 years in 2000 – and then in 2006, inflicting a humiliating military defeat – and the recent humbling of Lebanon's USrael-backed government has dealt a further blow to American credibility in the region less than a year after Hamas Islamists seized Gazzah from Palestinian leaders supported by Washington.

To some political analysts - It comes as part of a cumulative process in which an American policy to confront Islamists and nationalists in Afghanistan, Iraq, Somalia, Palestine, perhaps Yemen and now Lebanon seems to have failed, at least in the short run.

Professor Hilal Khashan of Political Science Department at American University of Beirut sumed it up: “I don’t know what the pro-US people were thinking about the extent of US commitment to Lebanon. Hizb’Allah’s actions took the Americans by surprise and they will have to scratch their heads for a response”.

The latest troubles started when under pressure from its US, Israel and Arab allies – Siniora government outlawed Hizb’Allah’s telephone network, which helped its 1,000 plus fighters to overcome 30,000 Zionist invaders – and fired Beirut airport security chief, who is linked with Hizb’Allah. According to Paul Salem, director of Carnegie Endowment’s Middle East Program – “It was basically to pressure Islamic Iran, which openly supports both Hizb’Allah and Hamas.

Bush’s Zionist administration’s offer to arm Lebanese armed forces to protect its government has received a crushing blow – since the very armed forces have joined the opposition groups lead by Hizb’Allah.

It’s high time that pro-Israel administration got off its high horses and deal with Islamic/national movements in Muslim world for America’s national interest – rather than keep targetting them as so-called “terrorists” to protect the interests of an unfriendly Zionist entity in Muslim heartland.

Could you specifically quote one of these intelligence reports and explain why you accuse my country of falsifing the report?

Which part of the report do you think was false?

Or are you just making that shit up to slander my country?

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... ..................
We the People of the United States, in Order to form a more perfect Union, establish Justice, insure domestic Tranquility, provide for the common defence, promote the general Welfare, and secure the Blessings of Liberty to ourselves and our Posterity, do ordain and establish this Constitution for the United States of America.