We're at war. The truth is what they say it is, for now. Don't trust them? Throw them out of office.

The History Channel will sort it out later. And, yes, there will be times at which deception was used. Again, this is war. Shit happens.

In the meantime, if you truly believe your government capable of fabricating and/or performing the acts of 9/11, you really, really, really ought to leave. Seriously. I, personally, would never live anywhere where I held my government (local or otherwise) is such low regard.

War is not a spectator sport and is not designed to be prosecuted in a "full disclosure" environment - regardless of what the media and its myriad technical advances tends to make you believe. Everything should be documented and revealed in the due course of history.

My great-uncle was an RCA engineer during WWII and was "involved" in whatever the "Philadelphia Experiment" actually was (it did happen, but wasn't that supernatural horseshit pop culture wants it to have been). Whatever did happen that he was aware of, he took to his grave. Over the course of his life, well into his 80's, he was visited by numerous journalists and authors trying to get information out of him. He declined every time. He might not have been hiding jack or squat worth a damn (technologically speaking or in terms of harming national security - or maybe it was just simply horrific and/or embarrassing to his country) - or he might have - who knows? He didn't tell the family jack squeeznit, either. All that is certain is that he was given instructions at some point to "never reveal [this and that]". And he didn't. Ever. That is how wars are meant to be fought - in his case, by a civilian. Fuck CNN.

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"Compassionate Conservatism"?!?! That is a stupid phrase. Conservatism is inherently compassionate. It is liberalism that is cruel for the sake of maintaining a constituency.

Very well said!

Completely agreed.

Here's what I understand from what the posters argue:

1) Some tell 9/11 happened the way it waas told us by the Bush Government.

2) Some tell, no way, it was something different. (Which does not mean that Americans did it. It might as well mean that some others, other than Muslim Arabs, did it.)

People in the first category accuses the ones in the second category with being conspiracy theorists...

I don't know why as long as they are able to bring about enough evidence... don't the guys in the first category do the same thing: Bringing forward evidence.

Only Jimmy Carter gave the Roswell morons an audience.

Even he wouldn't give your crowd an audience.

What does that say?

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"Compassionate Conservatism"?!?! That is a stupid phrase. Conservatism is inherently compassionate. It is liberalism that is cruel for the sake of maintaining a constituency.

Fleeing is for the coward.

By the way, I don't believe Bush Administration is responsible for it. But no one can dismiss the fact that they misused/abused it to its morrow--for their political agenda, which is disgusting.

But I don't also believe that the explanation of 9/11 could be that simple... People with primitive knives...

Something bigger must be behind it. Something more powerful and with historic and political ties with America.

Something that we trust. Something that we call ally.

I can agree with this.
LOL...I don't think cavemen had box cutters. Anyway, have you ever been in tight quarters with an angry terrorist, claiming to have a bomb, waving a blade at you with a guy bleeding profusely from his neck at your feet? Seems like it would be pretty effective crowd control at the time.

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"Anyone that needs what they want, and doesn’t want what they need
I want nothing to do with
And to do what I want
And to do what I please
Is first on my to-do list"
-Gnarls Barkley, "Going On" lyrics

So the USS Liberty attack was just a conspiracy?

Did Israel hit him unknowingly/mistakenly?

In fact, the whole event was a deadly cover up.

[quote]http://www.aljazeera.com/news/newsfull.php?newid=25921
Several U.S. and Israeli investigations, and the declassification of thousands of pieces of information, didn’t reveal the truth. The findings concluded that the attack was a result of a mistake caused by confusion among the Israeli attackers about the identity of the USS Liberty. Israel blamed the incident on the fact that its air and naval forces mistakenly identified the USS Liberty as the Egyptian vessel El Quseir.

Israel apologised for the attack and paid nearly $13m in compensation. The case was officially closed between the U.S. and Israeli governments in December 1987.

But Liberty survivors and several top U.S. officials believe that the truth was covered up. They stress that the USS Liberty was more than twice as large as the El Quseir, and was clearly designated with Latin rather than Arabic letters and numbers.

Gary Brummett, a 21-year-old third class petty officer who was serving on board the USS Liberty, also believes that the attack was a war crime and that American and Israeli authorities were and are still covering up the incident. "I have more trouble with it today than when it happened because I know more of the facts about what was going on," he told BBC. "There's been an egregious wrong done here, there have been an extreme number of lies told to the American people and the American people do not know the truth about what happened."

Israeli supporters insist that those who dismiss Israel’s claims simply want to criticize the Jewish state. On the other hand, skeptics believe that the attack was premeditated and that the truth has been covered up. Such beliefs were strengthened by a 2003 independent commission of inquiry which reported that the attack on the Liberty "remains the only serious naval incident that has never been thoroughly investigated by Congress".

There are multiple theories regarding the real reason behind the deadly attack; the gravest incident in the history of U.S.-Israeli relations.

Among such theories is the possibility that Liberty, a $40m state-of-the-art surveillance ship, was eavesdropping on an Israeli massacre of Egyptian prisoners of war. But Israel claims that its troops didn’t kill Egyptian POWs, saying those who died at the time were 250 armed Palestinian fighters.

Another opinion suggests that Israel destroyed the American ship because it had learnt of secret Israeli plans to invade Syria's Golan Heights two days later.

The USS Liberty memorial web site also suggests that Israel attacked the American vessel to prevent it from reporting a deliberate massacre of 14 Indian United Nations peacekeepers that took place in Gaza shortly before the Liberty attack.

One of the most bold theories was presented by Peter Hounam in his 2003 book "Operation Cyanide". Hounam argues that the attack was probably planned a year earlier by U.S. and Israeli authorities.

"The attack on the Liberty was pre-planned, perhaps from at least a year beforehand," Mr Hounam says. "The Liberty was sent into a very dangerous situation, where it was, in my view, placed in a position to be attacked".

Mr Hounam believes that the motive was to sink the Liberty and kill everyone on board, but as the ship remained afloat the plan was cancelled and has been covered up ever since.

One of the most powerful assertions of a cover-up also came from retired U.S. Navy lawyer Capt Ward Boston, counsel to the Navy Court of Inquiry into the incident conducted just days after the attack. Capt. Boston asserts that the court's original findings, which he signed, were changed afterwards by government lawyers. He also says that the president of the court, Rear Adm Isaac Kidd, told him he was ordered by U.S. President Lyndon Johnson and Defence Secretary Robert McNamara to conclude the attack was a case of mistaken identity.

With all the conflicting theories, the USS Liberty attack remains one of the most investigated yet unresolved cases in the history of wars. The families of the American servicemen killed in that attack may never know why their loved ones died![quote]

I guess we have enough reason to approach such events with great reservation, no matter how unpatriotic it may seem. This is what our country needs.

Here's a "BBC" documentary about Israel's 1967 attack on the USS Liberty.


alJazeera Magazine

No, not the knives...

What strikes me most is the synchoronization of the attack... Something that only few biggest intelligence services could manage.

..why's that?

__________________
"Anyone that needs what they want, and doesn’t want what they need
I want nothing to do with
And to do what I want
And to do what I please
Is first on my to-do list"
-Gnarls Barkley, "Going On" lyrics

Jesus, for a second there, I thought you were being serious...

So, if I believe my government has pulled another "Pearl Harbor" type event, to lead us into war, then I should leave my country, without bothering to try to learn the truth?

Typical.

You say you would not want to live in a country that had a government capable of committing such an attrocity as 911. Well guess what, you already live in such a country.

The crimes the US government has admitted to are horrific. Testing on it's own servicemen, veterans and civilians, the Gulf of Tonkin lie. How many Americans died in Viet Nam?

I guess you should leave. Let me know if you need help packing.

I don't have a problem with that stuff. I'm not going anywhere.

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"Compassionate Conservatism"?!?! That is a stupid phrase. Conservatism is inherently compassionate. It is liberalism that is cruel for the sake of maintaining a constituency.

You don't have a problem with our government lying to escalate a war in which over 58,000 Americans died?

You don't have a problem with our government testing on it's own people, resulting in the deaths of at least 2 people?

I bet you would feel differently if your father was named Frank Olson or Ed Nevin.

Sickening.

Well, I DO have a problem with that stuff, and I'm not going anywhere either at the moment. And if/when I do, it won't be to leave for a country whose hands are clean. (I'm actually considering moving to Corsica at some point, although I'd want to visit extensively before making that decision. And anyone who thinks French hands are clean hasn't studied much history at all . . .)

I don't believe the world has, or has ever had, a morally perfect government, but we have every reason to strive for one and try to come as close to it as possible. And the fact that the U.S. government has committed atrocities in the past is no reason to leave, nor is a decision not to leave any reason to feel one should shut up.