Hamas, Fatah slam Obama - Page 2 - U.S. Politics Online: A Political Discussion Forum

TheLastBoyScout · #16 (**permalink**) 06-05-2008

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fidei Defensor

Hmmm ... I mean to say "more reasonable." His position on the Israel/Palestine issue is indistinguishable from those of Bush and McCain. In fact, I'm not sure I've ever heard of Bush or McCain declaring a sharing of Jerusalem off the table as Obama has done here. I simply see no reason for heightened optimism for peace here based on an Obama presidency.

I see no reason for heightened optimism for ISR/PAL peace in general.

Fidei Defensor · #17 (**permalink**) 06-05-2008

Quote:

Originally Posted by TheLastBoyScout

I see no reason for heightened optimism for ISR/PAL peace in general.

Well, me either. But I took from your previous post comparing Obama with McCain and Bush that the odds for peace would be better with Obama. I see no change in the American position on the horizon.

TheLastBoyScout · #18 (**permalink**) 06-05-2008

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fidei Defensor

Well, me either. But I took from your previous post comparing Obama with McCain and Bush that the odds for peace would be better with Obama. I see no change in the American position on the horizon.

Nope. Israel is always going to be a U.S. ally.

I do think there is more potential for peace with Obama, but really, potential peace depends almost exclusively on the principals of the conflict.... America can't force peace.

I personally, would like to see either of the candidates take a conditional stance with Israel and at least place pre-conditions on them for receiving U.S. Aid. Some degree of tough love is in order. I don't see that... and it is dissappointing.

Fidei Defensor · #19 (**permalink**) 06-05-2008

Quote:

Originally Posted by TheLastBoyScout

I personally, would like to see either of the candidates take a conditional stance with Israel and at least place pre-conditions on them for receiving U.S. Aid. Some degree of tough love is in order. I don't see that... and it is dissappointing.

Agreed. In fact, I see no reason why Israel should get U.S. aid at all. Seeing these politicians pander to a particular segment for the interests of a foreign nation is disgusting. I am amazed that it is such a sure-fire winner.

Frank · #20 (**permalink**) 06-05-2008

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ash

"I'm shocked, SHOCKED! Well, not that shocked."

Well Obama is proving to be the great uniter of people alright! He just united Hamas and Fatah in a common position against his irresponsible statements!

Frank · #21 (**permalink**) 06-05-2008

Quote:

Originally Posted by O'Sullivan Bere

The occupied territories were part of Egypt, Jordan and Syria. They attacked Israel repeatedly and the West Bank and East Jerusalem were occupied when Jordan attacked Israel seeking to destroy it.

The Six Day War started when Israel attacked Egypt and Israel was very instrumental in provoking war with the Arab powers namely Syria...

YouTube - Israel deceptions of the six day war 1 of 2
YouTube - Israel Deceptions of the six day war - 2 of 2

Quote:

Who violated these principles you are speaking of? Jordan did. Israel has been willing to discuss peace (Oslo, etc). Hamas, etc, want Israel as a state removed and fight in acts of war to achieve that. Who is violating these principles you speak of?

Israel has been willing to discuss peace as long as they get to keep illegally annexed territory and their 78% of historical Palestine in addition. To understand the sheer unfairness of the Israeli positions in such negotiations with the Palestinians lets go to Camp David. The Israeli negotiator and former Israeli Foreign Minister Shlomo Ben Ami admitted that he would not have accepted the Israeli "offers" at Camp David had he been a Palestinian...

Democracy Now! | Fmr. Israeli Foreign Minister: "If I were a Palestinian, I Would Have Rejected Camp David"

As far as your claims that Hamas is the aggressor?

Since the beginning of the intifada in September 2000, Israeli-Palestinian violence has spiralled. Israeli forces have killed some 4,000 Palestinians, most of them unarmed civilians and including some 800 children. Many were killed in air strikes, artillery shelling and other attacks against refugee camps and densely populated residential areas throughout the Occupied Palestinian Territory (OPT). Others were extrajudicially executed in attacks which killed scores of bystanders. In the same period, Palestinian armed groups have killed more than 1,100 Israelis, some 750 of them civilians and including 120 children, in suicide bombings and shooting attacks in buses, restaurants, shopping malls and other areas frequented by civilians.

Killings and attacks by both sides decreased significantly in 2005, after an informal truce (tahadiyeh or "quiet") was declared by Palestinian armed groups early that year. However, in 2006, while killings of Israelis by Palestinian armed groups decreased further, to half the previous year’s figure, and reached the lowest level since the beginning of the intifada, killings of Palestinians by Israeli forces increased threefold compared to the previous year.

Document - Israel and the Occupied Palestinian Territories: Enduring occupation. Palestinians under siege in the West Bank | Amnesty International

Danny · #22 (**permalink**) 06-05-2008

Quote:

Originally Posted by TheLastBoyScout

I think it was telling that one day after clinching the nomination, Obama pandered to AIPAC.

On the surface, it looks like he's no advocate of the Palestinians. He's really just focused on getting elected at this point which means going after the Jewish vote....(there's not much of a Palestinian vote here).

The Palestinians should take a step back though and think about the alternative. At least Obama is reasonable enough to be a peace broker and champion the peace process like Bush or McCain never could.

But perhaps that's precisely why Hamas, Fatah, and Palestinians are up in arms over Obama..... they certainly spurn compromise and are perhaps discarding peace.

My thoughts exactly. You don't waltz into AIPAC and say "we are gonna give East Jereusalem to the Palestinians". Thats political suicide.

I have to say when I heard him say that live I was shocked. Now I think it was politically brilliant. He now has terrorists condemning him which is surely to please less informed Americans. He will also enter negotiations with a stronger hand so that when East Jerusalem is given to Abbas, Abbas will feel like it was a concession.

Frank · #23 (**permalink**) 06-05-2008

Quote:

Originally Posted by Danny

My thoughts exactly. You don't waltz into AIPAC and say "we are gonna give East Jereusalem to the Palestinians". Thats political suicide.

I have to say when I heard him say that live I was shocked. Now I think it was politically brilliant. He now has terrorists condemning him which is surely to please less informed Americans. He will also enter negotiations with a stronger hand so that when East Jerusalem is given to Abbas, Abbas will feel like it was a concession.

And then every will live happily ever after, singing camp songs and licking lollipops!

Barack Obama claims to be a force for change who will not cave into special interests but he does just that with AIPAC! Not only is Barack Obama historically ignorant but he is untrustworthy as well...

PACs and lobbyists aided Obama's rise - The Boston Globe

The man is a moral fraud and an outright hypocrite...

iamwhatiseem · #24 (**permalink**) 06-05-2008

Quote:

Originally Posted by moon

That's one dumb comprehension. International law forbids invasion and the acquisition of territory by war. Borders cannot be changed without negotiation by involved parties. Jerusalem cannot be considered to be 'Israeli' without agreement by all parties. The Zionists, along with yet another American Zionist lackey, Barack Obama it appears, want to disregard international law. Clearly, such illegalities must be opposed by all necessary means.

Is there a ban on calling for candidates to be chucked off the balcony, or does that just relate to incumbent arsehole Presidents ?

Too funny...like Hamas or Iran gives a rats ass about international law

Fidei Defensor · #25 (**permalink**) 06-05-2008

Quote:

Originally Posted by Danny

My thoughts exactly. You don't waltz into AIPAC and say "we are gonna give East Jereusalem to the Palestinians". Thats political suicide.

Do you still think Barack is "the real deal"?

Frank · #26 (**permalink**) 06-05-2008

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fidei Defensor

Do you still think Barack is "the real deal"?

Sadly, many Canadians do seem to feel that way...

Canadians favour Obama over McCain in poll

Critical thinking does not seem to be a very important virtue in Canada...

TheLastBoyScout · #27 (**permalink**) 06-05-2008

Quote:

Originally Posted by Frank

Sadly, many Canadians do seem to feel that way...

Canadians favour Obama over McCain in poll

Critical thinking does not seem to be a very important virtue in Canada...

Why is it sad? Is McCain a better champion for the Palestinian people?

Perhaps I missed something.

underboss · #28 (**permalink**) 06-05-2008

Quote:

Originally Posted by O'Sullivan Bere

I guess Obama lost his endorsements.

The occupied territories were part of Egypt, Jordan and Syria. They attacked Israel repeatedly and the West Bank and East Jerusalem were occupied when Jordan attacked Israel seeking to destroy it.

Check your facts - it was Israel that attacked Egypt. Today is the 41st anniversary of that attack.

underboss · #29 (**permalink**) 06-05-2008

I find it very confusing - which country's Presidency is Obama campaigning for again?

Obama promised to defend the only nuclear armed nation in the Middle East, promised them $30 billion of our taxes for their "ethnic cleansing" of Palestine, and also defended the Apartheid ideology of Zionism and vowed to set up Jerusalem as the "undivided" Israeli capital.

Obama Running for President of United States of Israel?

We desperately need a two state solution for Israel and America.