What is your point and where are you going with this? What does it have to do with the disputed number of civilians killed in the airstrike in Afghanistan? The topic, you know.

Wazisitan has always been a problem and very strict as to religious social norms as compared to the rest of paki.

so I want to be sure I have tis right, going to Afghanistan after 2001 was okay ...bt now that the taliban has escaped to wazi, if they cross back into Afghanistan and cause mayhem, thats cool, but one cannot chase them back across and do them in?


Laying this all at our doorstep is not quite accurate.

Waziristan - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

also-

While the tribes offered refuge to the militants when they retreated to the area in 2002 after the American invasion of Afghanistan, that welcome is waning as the killings have generated new tensions and added to the volatility in the region.

"They are taking territory," a Western ambassador in Pakistan said. "They are becoming much more aggressive in Pakistan."
"It is the lesson from Afghanistan in the '90s," he added. "Ungoverned spaces are a problem. The whole tribal area is a problem."
The links among the various groups date to the 1980s, when Arabs, Pakistanis and other Muslims joined Afghans in their fight to drive out the Soviet invasion of Afghanistan, using a network of training camps and religious schools set up by the Pakistani intelligence agency and financed by the CIA and Saudi Arabia.

The training continued with Pakistani and Qaeda support through the 1990s, and then moved into Afghanistan under the Taliban. It was during this time that Pakistanis became drawn into militancy in big numbers, fighting alongside the Taliban and hundreds of foreign fighters against the northern tribes of Afghanistan.

Today the history of the region has come full circle. Since retreating from Afghanistan in 2002 under American military attacks, the Taliban and foreign fighters are again using the tribal areas to organize themselves — now training their sights on the 40,000 American and NATO troops in Afghanistan.

After failing to gain control of the areas in military campaigns, the government cut peace deals in South Waziristan in 2004 and 2005, and then in North Waziristan on Sept. 5. Since the September accord, NATO officials say cross-border attacks by Pakistani and Afghan Taliban and their foreign allies have increased.

In recent weeks, Pakistani intelligence officials said the number of foreign fighters in the tribal areas was far higher than the official estimate of 500, perhaps as high as 1,500 to 2,000 today.


A Taliban ministate arises in Pakistan - Asia - Pacific - International Herald Tribune

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"The captain has turned off the `No Dubbing' sign. You are free to speak any language you choose."

moon made of cheese..

10,300,000 hits ..so what?

moon made of cheese - Google Search

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"The captain has turned off the `No Dubbing' sign. You are free to speak any language you choose."

Touché

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232 years ago, this is who we were. . .
"A republic, if you can keep it." ~ Benjamin Franklin, upon leaving the Constitutional Convention, in answer to "What have we got?"

232 years later, this is what we have become. . .
http://www.uspoliticsonline.com/war-...a-we-rule.html

Topic;

US kills 90 civilians

US kills 90 civilians - Google Search

Two and a quarter million references.


US denies killing civilians

1.83 million references

US denies killing civilians - Google Search





The first search is specific. Even if the latter search was specific, which it isn't, America appears to be losing the 'denial' game by sheer weight of publicity figures. Of course, this means nothing as a Google search for 'moon and cheese' also finds references to 'moon and cheese'. Therefore America is innocent of international banditry.

Good to know that you lend such credibility to number of hits in a Google search. I'll remember that for the future. On second thought, I'll give it a try right now:

"support terrorism"

4,290,000 hits

support terrorism - Google Search

Cool! That should be significant to you, moon. It certainly is significant to the Taliban.

Results 1 - 10 of about 2,870,000 for moon is off topic.

Wow, counting Google Hits as a substitute for actual proof is sure fun....

Now, could we go back to discussing the topic, rather than proving that we can cut and paste from Google?

Matt

Well, whatever the numbers are, the fact remains that the US/NATO are operating in a region they don't understand historically, culturally, economically, and have little concern (if any) for the livelihood of its people. NGO's working on the ground have been saying this since 2002 and yet to this day nothing has changed. Afghanistan has the potential to be Vietnam redux. Only this time it won't just be the US/France involved but other major European nations as well.


AP IMPACT: Afghans fed up with government, US

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“Religion is regarded by the common people as true, by the wise as false, and by the rulers as useful.”

Seneca

See the whole thread.

Theres plenty of evidence of Pakistan not stopping its citizens crossing the border to make deadly raids into Afghanistan. The proof is that they do and are crossing to make deadly raids.

Granted.

I disagree. Controlling the border is merely a matter of political will. Place enough troops on border in fortified positions actually at the passing places of these mountains will solve the situation. The trouble is it requires investment.



Unfortunatly the same argument can be made against Pakistan. As a fully fledged state it has responsibility for the actions of its citizenry. Its actions in not stopping them is in fact in defiance of the UN and international law.


The new guy is a slimy old devil with a naughty history. However, the sensible course will be for him to talk against the American raids but act to support them by crushing Islamism from the North.
Pakistan will have to decide what exactly it wants.
WS.

The problem is a physical problem and yes a problem of will. The Pakistanis are thinking why should we deploy 100s or 1000s of our troops across those dangerous mountains to control the border? Whats in it for us? Then we get bombed "accidently" by US and Nato forces. Forget it!!

It sure does require investment the question is,... do they feel like they should invest? They do want to be part of the War on Terror clan (they dont have a choice right now) but they sure dont want to fight the war for the US. They are also under pressure,... their people will rise if they make a wrong step. And as you know, Pakistan is very tribal still, especially the north,...thats what rules up there. Thats reality, I know a country is suppose to control its citizens but when it comes to Afghanistan.... those tribes belong to each other... the border is nothing but an imaginary line.

Add to that, Pakistani Troops will be fought by the Taliban and their Pakistani version up there..... so they will loose troops? Is it worth it? I am sure they wont think so.

AND... add to that.... the islamic elements within the pakistani army. Who knows where their allegiance lies? There are strong anti american sentiment within the pakistani army no doubt and within the government.

So Pakistan will not send troops to the borders at a flick of the US fingers. They will do only enough to look like they are with it (war on terror).

Oh and those raids killing their soldiers really dont help. Neither do the love relationship between America and India re nuclear deals etc.

WS.

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"You can't separate peace from freedom because no one can be at peace unless he has his freedom"- Malcom X

So, Muslims might ally themselves with the Taliban based on Islam?

Matt

Off topic.

WS.

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"You can't separate peace from freedom because no one can be at peace unless he has his freedom"- Malcom X

You said it. I guess it was on topic in your post, but off topic when I asked a question about it?

Tsk, tsk.

Matt