If they want to avoid being bombed, all they need do is inform the US that if they are locked on they will fire their ground to air missiles. Thats guaranteed to force the US to mind its trigger finger for a change.

Well, as i said, Pakistan will have to decide which way it wants to go. They may well wish to leave the northern tribesmen to travel and do what they wish. However, they may also find predator aircraft taking up permanent routes across their territory.

Well theyve already been fighting up there for some time now.

Agreed. its always been a balance, but Pakistan has always sought to move away in from pure Islamism. I dont think thatll change.

Agreed. And the US raids will continue. I think the British will be forced to help in this activity soon also.

Agreed, however, the raids are still necessary, as are the nulcear deals. The US has struck good deals with pakistan also.

Shhhh. Wisdom_Seeker has declared that part of his post off topic. We're not allowed to speak of it.

I guess that the illegal raids will continue until the tribesmen outwit both the collaborators and attackers. One disastrous cross-border raid, with a shit-load of US/NATO casualties , and there'll be a change in policy. This is pre-election, of course. There won't be a great deal of international criminality after an Obama election and a lot of crooked European leaders will be following Guantanamo George in their respective tumbrels.

I think in the end the coalition will outwit the taliban by moving their forward bases up to the border and preventing the Taliban from getting their winter rest.

If a plane is brought down in pakistan itll be quickly recovered, the events will be noticed by all and Pakistans government will have to decide if it wants to help or hinder the UN mandated forces in Afghanistan. Right now theyre hindering by allowing their citizens to illegally raid Afghanistan.

Obama is very likely to make Pakistan play ball. The european consensus on Afghanistan is not shaky at all, being mostly left and liberal they are firmly against the Taliban. Sorry.

We'll see. Karsai's days, unfortunately, are short.

Part of Obama's campaign is that he will increase attacks in Pakistan, and that is one of his biggest criticisms of George W. Bush, that he has not done enough to go after Bin Laden. The United States has been extremely lenient with Pakistan. Go back to the first speeches Bush gave after 9/11 and he said any country that harbors these terrorists are targets. The current administration understands the delicate political situation in Pakistan, but it is growing very tired of their inaction. Any identified targets of opportunity are going to be attacked at an ever increasing rate in Pakistan.

As far as the op is concerned, it is an unfortunate event and a horrible consequence of mistakes made in battle. The confirmed count was 89 civilians, 30 insurgents, and a Taliban commander. Karzai blames the coalition forces for not coordinating the attacks correctly with the Afghan forces. Karzai also fired 2 commanders in the Afghan military. My hunch is that the British and American forces are a bit more accurate than the Afghan forces are, and the air strike that was called in gave incorrect or incomplete information. The second factor is that these insurgents use innocent civilians as human shields. The Taliban was the cause for the airstrike, and therefore the Taliban who are hiding amongst women and children are responsible for their deaths.

In other news 14 Afghan civilians were killed Saturday August 23rd in Taliban roadside attacks. Where is the self-righteous indignation and UN concern for the Taliban who are intentionally targeting civilians? The United States has just gotten used to the hypocracy of the United Nations and various anti-American sentiments around the world and within our own borders. No one really takes the UN seriously anymore. Hussein completely ignored the UN for what 11 years with no consequences. What is the UN going to do? Relocate out of American and quit depending on us to finance the vast majority of their operations, along with being the military power they call on when action is needed?

If Obama has said that he will attack sovereign Pakistani territory then he will be setting himself outside of international law and he'll have to face the consequences. I know that hypocrisy is fashionable amongst Americans but the US is going to require a lot of help from other countries wherein hypocrites are considered low caste. He'll end up as another Bush.

By that logic, any US soldier in the company of his family is using civilians as human shields and is therefore responsible for their deaths. You are describing a tribal society which is fighting out of its homes.

Please, work your socks off to have America resign from the UN. You have my wholehearted support.

I’m sure Obama will take credit for increasing military operations inside Pakistan, as will McCain, but the tempo is already on a huge rise. With Musharraf’s departure imminent, and any incoming administration unlikely to be as supportive of the War on Terror, I think there’s been a fundamental shift in strategy away from letting the Pakistanis deal with the problem to dealing with it as we see fit.

__________________
“Nations have no permanent friends or allies, they only have permanent interests.” - Lord Palmerston

Such a heady mix of theory, timing, personalities , resources etc. contrasts well with the simplicity of motivation and gameplan of the invaded peoples. Kill Americans.

Yanqui, go home.

What a beautifully concise way to sum up 95% of the posts you make that contain 2 or more sentences.

__________________
“Nations have no permanent friends or allies, they only have permanent interests.” - Lord Palmerston

We said we would go anywhere that Al Queda goes, and any nation harboring them will be dealt with. Not doing so would make us a hypocrite. The United States doesn't need support from countries who consider protecting Al Queda within their borders. Obama isn't being a hypocrite, he is making it known well before hand that he plans to go where Al Queda is, and is specifically mentioning the border regions in Pakistan. It is a fair warning.

Well yeah if that US soldier set up a command post inside his civilian home and is going completely against the United States and setting up his own government and armed forces then against the laws of his own country then we can draw a comparison. In which case when that soldier opens up fire on the legitimate armed forces of the United States, he is putting his family at risk of becoming casualties of the armed conflict. I suppose you missed the part where there were 30 taliban fighters and a commander killed in the operation. When located instead of laying down their arms to not risk the lives of civilians who were among them, they attacked the Afghan and coalition forces. They are responsible for the deaths of those people.

Nah we get a kick out of watching the UN prove how useless it is on an ongoing basis. I just hate to see it being done on our own dime.

trooth;
American hypocrisy is already legendary, so there's not really any point to worrying on that score.

Of course, all that is necessary in your schematic is for Dickie Cheney to shout 'al Qaeda' and you can invade wherever you like, right ?

Wtf needs an investigation by US forces in Afghanistan ?? Wtf needs an investigation carried out by the perps ???

Maybe all the bodies of civilians , the ones the US couldn't see, were dummies planted by al-Qaeda.
If not, it was their own fault for being there, right ?





Yanqui, go home.

Yes, WTF wants a thorough investigation so that the final report is not disputed by anyone? How silly to want thoroughness.

Somebody ought to do something about these terrorists.