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War & Peace A forum to discuss the current conflict with Iraq, North Korea, and the war on terrorism, as well as military/defense policy in general.

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  #226 (permalink)  
Old 09-15-2008
Screaming_eagle's Avatar
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Re: UN confirms 90 civilians killed in US airstrike

Quote:
Originally Posted by moon View Post
The new Pakistani government has yet to reveal its feelings about having American terrorists murder its citizenry.
And governments don't necessarily represent their populations. Take the American incumbent, as an example.
The Taliban is recruiting. If you hate America so much, just join the other side.
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"There is no room in this country for hyphenated Americanism. When I refer to hyphenated Americans, I do not refer to naturalized Americans. Some of the very best Americans I have ever known were naturalized Americans, Americans born abroad. But a hyphenated American is not an American at all. "
- Former President Theodore Roosevelt, October 12, 1915
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  #227 (permalink)  
Old 09-15-2008
Chocobot's Avatar
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Re: UN confirms 90 civilians killed in US airstrike

Quote:
Originally Posted by Screaming_eagle View Post
The Taliban is recruiting. If you hate America so much, just join the other side.
Why do people still try this line?
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  #228 (permalink)  
Old 09-15-2008
moon's Avatar
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Re: UN confirms 90 civilians killed in US airstrike

Quote:
The Taliban is recruiting. If you hate America so much, just join the other side.
You'll find that trying to hide behind that 'America' crap is a worn-out tactic. If you want to break international law do it as an individual , without trying to take your country down with you.
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  #229 (permalink)  
Old 09-15-2008
Richyrich03867's Avatar
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Re: UN confirms 90 civilians killed in US airstrike

Hey Moon, if the Paki's can't defend their own territorial integrity, thus allowing AQ and Taliban to operate from safe havens over the border from Afghanistan, then they don't have much to bitch about in my book.
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"I am no Martin Luther King or Ghandi motherfucker. I have no idea what those guys were talking about. You spit on my ass, I will knock you out. No motherfucking marching and singing in the street for me." - Jim Brown, NFL Hall-of-Famer and Cleveland Browns running back, 1957-1965
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  #230 (permalink)  
Old 09-15-2008
moon's Avatar
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Re: UN confirms 90 civilians killed in US airstrike

So, you support ignoring international law. That fits with your comments in general.
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  #231 (permalink)  
Old 09-15-2008
Richyrich03867's Avatar
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United_States     New_Hampshire

Re: UN confirms 90 civilians killed in US airstrike

No actually I do not. My preference would be that AQ and Taliban stop hiding behind borders or purposely hiding among civilians for the "human sheild defense", but if they must, and the Pakistanis choose to do nothing about them, then they are inviting hot pursuits of these groups on their territory. Certainly the Paki's are free to defend their borders against such incursions, but they don't bother. You want my opinion, they would rather we deal with the problem, and the public condemnation is just for show. On your part I have seen hearty support for Hezbollah and Hamas no matter what international laws they violate...
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"I am no Martin Luther King or Ghandi motherfucker. I have no idea what those guys were talking about. You spit on my ass, I will knock you out. No motherfucking marching and singing in the street for me." - Jim Brown, NFL Hall-of-Famer and Cleveland Browns running back, 1957-1965
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  #232 (permalink)  
Old 09-15-2008
Chocobot's Avatar
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Re: UN confirms 90 civilians killed in US airstrike

Quote:
Originally Posted by Richyrich03867 View Post
No actually I do not. My preference would be that AQ and Taliban stop hiding behind borders or purposely hiding among civilians for the "human sheild defense", but if they must, and the Pakistanis choose to do nothing about them, then they are inviting hot pursuits of these groups on their territory. Certainly the Paki's are free to defend their borders against such incursions, but they don't bother. You want my opinion, they would rather we deal with the problem, and the public condemnation is just for show. On your part I have seen hearty support for Hezbollah and Hamas no matter what international laws they violate...
Hmmm, cant remember Hezbollah or Hamas crossing any undisputed borders.

Ooops, said a positive thing about the evil H's. I take it back! Dont taze me bro!
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  #233 (permalink)  
Old 09-15-2008
President

 
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Re: UN confirms 90 civilians killed in US airstrike

Quote:
Originally Posted by Richyrich03867 View Post
No actually I do not. My preference would be that AQ and Taliban stop hiding behind borders or purposely hiding among civilians for the "human sheild defense", but if they must, and the Pakistanis choose to do nothing about them, then they are inviting hot pursuits of these groups on their territory. Certainly the Paki's are free to defend their borders against such incursions, but they don't bother. You want my opinion, they would rather we deal with the problem, and the public condemnation is just for show. On your part I have seen hearty support for Hezbollah and Hamas no matter what international laws they violate...
The fact that the Pakis don't bother to defned seems like a very good indication that they do not want to deal with AQ and the Taliban. It also makes perfect sense as it helps them keep up deniability while still dealing with the problem. I think you've pinned it down with a simple and pragmatic analysis.
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  #234 (permalink)  
Old 09-16-2008
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Re: UN confirms 90 civilians killed in US airstrike

Richyrich;
Quote:
On your part I have seen hearty support for Hezbollah and Hamas no matter what international laws they violate...
Hizb'allah and Hamas are resistance groups whose activities are confined to opposing the Zionist invasion of their respective countries. In short, they are engaged in self-defense. Bearing that in mind, do tell which international laws they are breaking and illustrate my support for them.
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  #235 (permalink)  
Old 09-16-2008
Chocobot's Avatar
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Re: UN confirms 90 civilians killed in US airstrike

On the paki side of things. Its actually pakistan thats breaking international law by allowing its citizens to make war in another country.

Re H & H, theyre operating on disputed borders or inside their own areas. Thus you can have little complaint.
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  #236 (permalink)  
Old 09-16-2008
moon's Avatar
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Re: UN confirms 90 civilians killed in US airstrike

The Pakistani government isn't 'allowing its citizens' to do any such thing. In fact, the Pakistani government has alienated most of the areas tribespeople by actually attacking its own citizens itself. That is the respect in which the Pakistani government has broken international law.
Of course, America breaks international law every time it crosses Pakistan's borders, with or without Guantanamo George's spurious consent.
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  #237 (permalink)  
Old 09-16-2008
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Re: UN confirms 90 civilians killed in US airstrike

Quote:
Originally Posted by moon View Post
Richyrich;


Hizb'allah and Hamas are resistance groups whose activities are confined to opposing the Zionist invasion of their respective countries. In short, they are engaged in self-defense. Bearing that in mind, do tell which international laws they are breaking and illustrate my support for them.
So, indiscriminate use of anti-personnel weapons on civilian areas is cool under international law? What of deliberate killing of civilians?

You rightly condemn Israel when they do these things, but refuse to admit that Hamas and Hezbollah do them as well.

Matt
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  #238 (permalink)  
Old 09-16-2008
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Re: UN confirms 90 civilians killed in US airstrike

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Originally Posted by MattLarson View Post
So, indiscriminate use of anti-personnel weapons on civilian areas is cool under international law? What of deliberate killing of civilians?

You rightly condemn Israel when they do these things, but refuse to admit that Hamas and Hezbollah do them as well.

Matt
Defence against invasion isnt contrary to international law, even if civilians are hit.

One cant condemn Hz'allah for defending itself.
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  #239 (permalink)  
Old 09-16-2008
Chocobot's Avatar
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Re: UN confirms 90 civilians killed in US airstrike

Quote:
Originally Posted by moon View Post
The Pakistani government isn't 'allowing its citizens' to do any such thing. In fact, the Pakistani government has alienated most of the areas tribespeople by actually attacking its own citizens itself. That is the respect in which the Pakistani government has broken international law.
Of course, America breaks international law every time it crosses Pakistan's borders, with or without Guantanamo George's spurious consent.
As the authority in the area of Pakistan, that government is responsible for the actions of its people. if it wont stop them, then they are being allowed.

Paki's gov's alienation of these tribes is not the issue. Theyre still in Pakistan.

International law doesnt provide an opportunity for people to cross recognised borders cause trouble and then cross back when protection is required.
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  #240 (permalink)  
Old 09-16-2008
MattLarson's Avatar
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Re: UN confirms 90 civilians killed in US airstrike

Quote:
Originally Posted by Chocobot View Post
Defence against invasion isnt contrary to international law, even if civilians are hit.

One cant condemn Hz'allah for defending itself.
Really?

Quote:
(Beirut, August 29, 2007) – During the 2006 war, Hezbollah fired thousands of rockets indiscriminately and at times deliberately at civilian areas in northern Israel, killing at least 39 civilians, Human Rights Watch said in a report released today. Human Rights Watch said that Hezbollah’s justifications for its attacks on Israeli towns – as a response to indiscriminate Israeli fire into southern Lebanon and to draw Israel into a ground war – had no legal basis under the laws of war.

The 128-page report, “Civilians under Assault: Hezbollah’s Rocket Attacks on Israel in the 2006 War,” presents more than 20 case studies based on extensive field research in northern Israel into rocket attacks that killed or injured civilians in Jewish, Arab and mixed villages, towns and cities. It also draws evidence of Hezbollah’s intent behind these rocket attacks from more than 100 Hezbollah communiques and declarations.

“Hezbollah’s explanations for why it fired rockets at Israel’s civilian population utterly fail to justify these unlawful attacks,” said Sarah Leah Whitson, director of Human Rights Watch’s Middle East and North Africa division.

In their statements, Hezbollah leaders repeatedly threatened to attack Israeli towns and settlements in retaliation for Israeli attacks on Lebanese towns – a rationale that under international humanitarian law does not justify deliberate or indiscriminate attacks on civilians. Hezbollah also claimed responsibility for specific attacks on Israeli towns and settlements, even as they voiced support for the principle of sparing civilians. Statements by leaders in the military chain of command indicating intent to fire indiscriminately toward civilian areas are evidence of war crimes.
Lebanon/Israel: Hezbollah Rockets Targeted Civilians in 2006 War (Human Rights Watch, 29-8-2007)
This excuse that Hezbollah and Hamas can do whatever they please, because they are "defending" themselves is bullshit.

Matt
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