No, that's your reality, not mine.

Wow, that's clever.

Andrew

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“...corporations and those who run them cannot stop exploiting resources and amassing wealth until they have... .I cannot finish this sentence, because the truth is that can never stop; like cancer, they can only continue to expand until they kill the host.”

-- Derrick Jensen

No, it's what it is. You believe something different than I and you have an issue with it? Perceived realities are based on firmly held beliefs. Now, one must ask who has a problem with keeping their emotions in check.

The irony of that post is breath-taking. “I never hide my emotions; you need to learn to control yours”. Thanx, it’s been quite a while since I got a good chuckle from a post like I did from this one.

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“Nations have no permanent friends or allies, they only have permanent interests.” - Lord Palmerston

I dont see why we cant show any emotions regarding this issue. 90 innocent women and children are killed. WE DAM SHOULD SHOW EMOTIONS. Its about being human. Or do you only show emotions at dead Americans?

If you dont show emotions at dead children, then you are one heartless cold son of a gun.

There is no remorse or regret across the board at this incident. All I see is members avoiding to discuss this fact and getting involved in personal insults as a way of avoiding the point.

On the point of cowardice, thats well covered by Andrew and I dont need to cover it again. Too much failed aerial bombardment that results in the death of innocent lives,... very little ground work. That is not the work of a technologically advanced army. If technology is used for the death of innocent people, that does not show bravery or how advanced an army is. It shows the opposite.

WS.

WS.

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"You can't separate peace from freedom because no one can be at peace unless he has his freedom"- Malcom X

Actually, while I dont agree with either Wisdom Seeker or perhaps Andrewl on the politics of Afghanistan its clear the issue of courage is won by the human with the lesser protection.

To think otherwise is to presume that the forces driving the tanks into Tianenmen square had just as much courage as the guy standing in front of that tank pleading for it to stop.

Those that dont recognise this must admit that they hold a bias towards their own forces that skews their vision or perhaps just that they need to think more on the issue. That said Id love to hear the counter argument to this.

Lastly, it IS a matter of either laziness or cowardlyness when a bomber decides not to fly lower in order to fuly ascertain the nature of the people in the target he wishes to bomb. However, it may be that the bomber was given a target by ground forces. Thus the fault is not with him but with those ground forces.

The reality is I wasn’t taking it lightly, I was calling you a coward. The truth is I don’t know if you are or not (I suspect you are, but I don’t know). What I do know is that you are making judgments on something that you are way way in over your head on. And you have a very warped sense of reality to the point where you seem to honestly think that a tribal culture somehow is the answer to our problems (and that is so far out to lunch that I can’t even describe it).

I haven’t talked to anyone who was there yet, but I know how these things work. I don’t know what happened here, but I’m willing to be a LOT of money that 90 civilians is a very exaggerated number. Ignoring for now that the number was arrived at using only surveys, the fact that counting casualties is extraordinarily difficult, and that 90 and especially 60 is a very round number, there are mountains of measures put in place to avoid that sort of thing happening, and I just cannot see how something like that could happen unless they were intentionally planted by insurgents in order to cause this sort of uproar, or something of the like.


Now moreover, I do get very upset when people like you try to pretend that somehow by virtue of sitting on your ass on a couch and reading a few books, that you have an increased capacity to care about these sorts of things. Worse things than this happen everyday, and if you aren’t dead serious crying your eyes out every minute of every day, than you are a hypocritical asshole who is using tragedy to his own political ends. And I certainly spit on that.


Anybody who thinks that a battle should be a fair fight is an idiot. Anyone who thinks that even an unfair fight doesn’t take plenty of courage, and that using an air strike when your getting shot at is cowardice gets his idea of bravery from action movies and video games, and anyone who wants to flaunt that sophomoric lunacy about just to try to make himself feel better about some political point he is trying to make is an asshole.

Andrewl has not made comment on the value of tribal culture.

.

This is reasonable comment. Agreed. 90 is just a number. Its very likely alot less. However, if the 90 bodies have been counted out and shown Ill take it back.


Its not by that virtue that he criticises. Its by virtue of his humanity. Its not enough for a decent human being just to say 'oh well, dont really know whats happened....etc etc. Hey who won the Superbowl?'
Besides, worse things actually do not happen every day. When they do they are not within the political remit of this citizen. For example, Sunni female had bombed a Shia procession lately. This should be cried over and criticised, yes? Yet what access does a poster like Andrewl have to the Sunni's? Do they offer him a vote on their actions? No.



Agreed. war is a matter of effective power.

Not agreed. While the pilot does have courage, this is only most evident when faced with a foe of equal strength. A few buildings with some miltants firing AKs does not qualify. Besides, few in the 80s had a problem criticising the Russians as cowards for their use of Hind gunships against the mudjahadeen. This logic is valid now as it was then.

Degrees of defence/ offence capability are crucial in deciding comparative courage and honour. Otherwise we cannot judge conduct in the field of human conflict.

Here is an interesting development: Pentagon Reports U.S. Airstrike Killed 5 Afghan Civilians, Not 90

I wonder who has it right?

to bad you only practice that on your own limited level, though eh?

not all dead children are equal are they?

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"The captain has turned off the `No Dubbing' sign. You are free to speak any language you choose."

Interesting comment.

Care to explain?

no, its in past posts in other topics most especially displayed in the Israeli palast. context......lets say the old saying where in; ‘all pigs are not equal' is quite apt as to WS's approach to according or assigning sympathy to dead children, civilians etc.

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"The captain has turned off the `No Dubbing' sign. You are free to speak any language you choose."

Thank you, I take its your opinion that WS puts dead Palestinian children above dead Isreali children, correct?

Or does he just think the difference in numbers is significant?

Anyway, WS, this is a rather underhand attack, but very cutting.

What say you?

Use the search feature and find out what WS has to say about dead Israelis or Americans (children or otherwise) vs. dead Palestinians/Iraqis/Afghanis (children or otherwise).

I dare you to prove evidence where I have differentiated between dead Israeli children with dead palestinian children.

I have clearly condemned attacks on Israeli civilians by Hamas or Hizbullah.

You failed to provide the same when on a daily basis palestinian children were being killed.

You have also failed to condemn this attack in Afghanistan. The same with Si Modo.... all you two did here was avoiding this point by diverting into other completely irrelevant conversations.... usually pointless attacks such as this one.

So I am waiting for your proof where I said its ok for Israeli children to die and not ok for palestinian children.

If you cant provide this, it will be nice of you to apologise, oh and to provide a condemnation of this US attack on afghani children.

WS.

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"You can't separate peace from freedom because no one can be at peace unless he has his freedom"- Malcom X