Actually I have some sympathy for the goat. Every time we say goat-fuck in reference to Iraq, and a lot of what goes on there, the goats are thinking "Quit encouraging the locals".

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"You don't have to practice being miserable. Everything else we're gonna work on." - A wise Platoon Sgt.

moon;
Nor the callous disregard for the Geneva Conventions, according to some reports;

Where in the Geneva convention is beheading folks you claim to know are the other side's troops permitted, moon?

Even if these were troops - which is disputed - they were not armed and not engaged in combat operations. So pray, provide the justification under international law for executing them?

Matt

Doesn't quite fit their 'America is the root of all evils' agenda, clearly.

As someone who would be really happy to see a withdrawal of our forces from Iraq (mainly because, unlike some on here, I actually have family there), I know - from what they tell me - that Iraq improves daily. They say that the Iraqis, while not being exactly thrilled about it, do understand and accept why we are there.

It's inconvenient for the Obaaaama agenda. Cutting and running might be his favorite solution but even he admits (occasionally) that it's not necessarily the best action. Even Obaaama himself has pulled away from his original 'everybody out now' stance. IF we do not ensure that Iraq is stable before we leave then those who died (and that includes someone I care about very much) will have died for nothing. Worse, we will have to go back again.

The thing that irritates me the most is that this whole shit was completely avoidable - if we had done what the US military suggested way back in '91 and remove Saddam then. Just think how much different things would be. Big hi 5 to the UN for stupid decision of the century...

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Great Quotes from Great Americans:

"With regard to the words 'general welfare', I have always regarded them as qualified by the details of the powers connected with them. To take them in a literal and unlimited sense would be a metamorphisis of the Constitution into a character which there is a host of proofs was not contemplated by its creators."James Madison, Father of the Constitution

Interesting. I like the post about women and children dying and then moon goes off about the "cheering" news or whatever he calls it. It makes you wonder what his view is on the world. Does he support the Taliban and what they believe in which is the farthest thing from Freedom, punishing people for such minor offences, and women have no rights at all, yada yada yada we all know the deal. Anyways what I'm trying to get at is for someone to support a society, if you can even call it that, like that but then gets all puffy about a bomb going off with some civilian casualties is just weird.

does this make absolutely no sense to anyone else or is it just me? This guy supports suicide bombers but gets all bitter about a bomb going off and killing people? I don't know maybe I am missing a point.

Please help show me the light 'cause I ain't seeing it.

There's no light to see. Once you figure that out it's pretty easy.

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"You don't have to practice being miserable. Everything else we're gonna work on." - A wise Platoon Sgt.

BDailey;


Sure.

That's a rather odd contention. What data or evidence do you have that would indicate, had we pushed on into Iraq at that time, the same, exact things wouldn't have happened?

If you want to be wise afterward, the biggest US mistake was 1970-1980 when US oil companies together with CIA wanted to destroy Iran and lifted Saddam to power with a condition that he should attack Iran together with USA. However, when Saddam followed the US order and attacked, US Congress did not accept the direct support to Saddam, support took place using 3rd countries and military advise only (CIA used huge amount of black money from drug trafficking and strange weapons deals - but failed). So USA betrayed its own Saddam. And when Iraq lost the war, USA wanted Saddam to do something crazy just to get an excuse to conquer Iraq itself to gain some benefit (the Kuwait occupation was supported by US ministers). So the Gulf war was just one chapter in the US-CIA history of mass-murders - not a single event.

Actually, it was the same stupidity with the Taliban. When Afghan government wanted Soviets to help in fighting against Taliban rebels, USA supported the mujaheddin (by financing al Qaeda and Osama bin Laden) and then later betrayed them just to get an excuse to occupy Afghanistan.

Let's see what will happen with Pakistan. USA (CIA) has operated there very actively, carried out assassinations, lifted up military dictators and has a good reason to occupy that country sooner or later (as it has gone out of US hands now). I just wonder do the poor Americans have houses after all this money wastage.

The final problem has always been Iran ... not the country itself but its huge oil resources which are in "wrong hands" as they belong now to local population - not for Bush Hawks. Iran also started to use Euro in oil business and collaborated with e.g. Russia and China. But USA military is far too weak to "liberate" Iran. One dream has been that the crazy Israelis could do the dirty job at the beginning and US could then go to pick the berries afterward.

Quote:
Throughout the 1980s, the U.S. Commerce Department approved at least $1.5 billion in exports with possible military applications from U.S. companies to Iraq...
C.I.A. officials "were desperate to make sure that Iraq did not lose" to Iran. "The use of gas on the battlefield by the Iraqis was not a matter of deep strategic concern," he said. One veteran said, that the Pentagon "wasn't so horrified by Iraq's use of gas." "It was just another way of killing people _ whether with a bullet or phosgene, it didn't make any difference."
Howard Teicher: CIA Director Casey personally spearheaded the effort to ensure that Iraq had sufficient military weapons, ammunition and vehicles to avoid losing the Iran-Iraq war. Pursuant to the secret NSDD, the United States actively supported the Iraqi war effort by supplying the Iraqis with billions of dollars of credits, by providing U.S. military intelligence and advice to the Iraqis, and by closely monitoring third country arms sales to Iraq to make sure that Iraq had the military weaponry required. The United States also provided strategic operational advice to the Iraqis to better use their assets in combat. For example, in 1986, President Reagan sent a secret message to Saddam Hussein telling him that Iraq should step up its air war and bombing of Iran.
Affidavit. United States v. Carlos Cardoen, et al.

Quote:
Iraq is once again a target of US "regime change." Despite that, precious little is being said by the corporate media about how the CIA aided and abetted political assassination, regime change and mass murder, all in the name of putting Saddam's Ba'ath power into power for the first time in Iraq.
Iraqis have always suspected that the 1963 military coup that set Saddam Husain on the road to absolute power had been masterminded by the US Central Intelligence Agency (CIA). New evidence just published reveals that the agency not only engineered the putsch but also supplied the list of people to be eliminated once power was secured--a monstrous stratagem that led to the decimation of Iraq's professional class.
Regime Change: How the CIA put Saddam's Party in Power

George W. Bush declared the objective of the invasion was "to disarm Iraq of weapons of mass destruction, to end Saddam Hussein's support for terrorism, and to free the Iraqi people." The actual existence of weapons of mass destruction, arguing a war in Iraq was "not justified" in the given context UNMOVIC's February 12, 2003 report. Funny - isn't it?

Quote (Times 8/19/1998):
Times reports that the U.S. SPENT more than 6 billion dollars to support terrorism (Osama bin Laden) - and that’s just in Afghanistan.
According to the Times, bin Laden et al were CIA employees, given the best training, arms, facilities, and lots of cash for many years. That's what the Times reported on August 24, 1998.

There are number of academic investigations about US-CIA operations in M East and in those lights the whole story of US wars are unbelievable. If you want to have links to such research, I can provide.

You don't give up, do ya? Thanks for the laughs...

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"The most important single central fact about a free market is that no exchange takes place unless both parties benefit."
- Milton Friedman

"The quickest way of ending a war is to lose it."
- George Orwell

EagleSeven - if historical documents about US will give you good laughs you are actually laughing to yourself ... as USA is probably your home country.

I can understand that just ordinary Americans who are not reading academic documents and not even political newspapers, cannot understand what I am writing as the light-minded propaganda of politicians has given completely different perception. You must buy a very thin book Modern History of USA (reviewed by several history professors) and you can read exactly those same articles which I have mentioned in my links.

For me the situation is very easy to understand as I have lived close to Soviet border ... there also the truth and people's perceptions used to be far from each others.

Analyst the affidavit you cite does not support your post. You say Iraq was "ordered" to attack Iran by the USA in 1980; and that the USA together with oil companies and the CIA tried to destroy Iran 1970-1980.

1) Until 1979 Iran was a staunch US ally; we were attempting to keep the Shah in power and provided Iran with substantial military aid;
2) Your source for your contention that the CIA installed Saddam is full of opinion and zero facts sourced.

It's a great tin-foil hat theory though!

__________________
"I am no Martin Luther King or Ghandi motherfucker. I have no idea what those guys were talking about. You spit on my ass, I will knock you out. No motherfucking marching and singing in the street for me." - Jim Brown, NFL Hall-of-Famer and Cleveland Browns running back, 1957-1965

Thanks to the US presence, the illegal drug trade is booming.

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Is our children learning? -George W. Bush

"I think—tide turning—see, as I remember—I was raised in the desert, but tides kind of—it's easy to see a tide turn—did I say those words?"—Washington, D.C., June 14, 2006

"[T]he illiteracy level of our children are appalling."—Washington, D.C., Jan. 23, 2004

Who are liberals to comment on nationbuilding, and what so-called "disaster" condition other countries are in,
when Liberal leadership has given us such disasters as Detroit, Compton, and Chicago?

One might feel safer walking down a street in Baghdad than walking down a street in East LA

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"There is no room in this country for hyphenated Americanism. When I refer to hyphenated Americans, I do not refer to naturalized Americans. Some of the very best Americans I have ever known were naturalized Americans, Americans born abroad. But a hyphenated American is not an American at all. "
- Former President Theodore Roosevelt, October 12, 1915

Well when I see politicians walking down those American cities in body armor with a full battilion escorting them to wherever they go I'll consider what you just said a little more seriously.

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Is our children learning? -George W. Bush

"I think—tide turning—see, as I remember—I was raised in the desert, but tides kind of—it's easy to see a tide turn—did I say those words?"—Washington, D.C., June 14, 2006

"[T]he illiteracy level of our children are appalling."—Washington, D.C., Jan. 23, 2004