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War & Peace A forum to discuss the current conflict with Iraq, North Korea, and the war on terrorism, as well as military/defense policy in general.

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  #31 (permalink)  
Old 03-16-2009
jet57's Avatar
Speaker of the House

 
Member Since: Mar 2009
Location: San Francisco
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United_States     Scotland

Re: Religious Politics

Quote:
They just did it to piss off the Soviets who were brutally and inhumanely persecuting religious folks.
I'm not so sure that's true. Churches in some areas, as I recall were allowed to go on. Many of the old churches still stand today. It was the influence of the church that was strictly curtailed. The communists sees the church as an inapropriate influence based on a superstition; I don't say that assertively, but rather as an educated guess based on what I know of the issue.
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  #32 (permalink)  
Old 03-16-2009
Non Sequitur's Avatar
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Member Since: Jun 2006
Location: Grand Rapids
Posts: 1,169

United_States     Netherlands

Re: Religious Politics

Some good events

1) Pope John Paul II resisting communism and helped end communism in Poland.

CBC News Indepth: POPE JOHN PAUL II

2) Dietrich Bonhoeffer's (Lutheran Pastor) fight against Hitler
Dietrich Bonhoeffer - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

3) The Jubilee movement to forgive third world debt comes from the Biblical idea of debt cancellations every 50th year.
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  #33 (permalink)  
Old 03-16-2009
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liberal idealist

 
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Location: Melbourne, Australia
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Re: Religious Politics

Quote:
Originally Posted by lpfan13612 View Post
I am trying to come up with a decent list of events where Religion was a part of politics. This is only a list of Post WWII events. I have a few but they are all negative, and i have done some research but i have not come up with much. But i want to find information where religion was a helping factor in politics. Some of the negative ones that i have so far is:

Israeli-Palestinian conflicts (Jew vs Muslim) '48-present
Iran-Iraq war (Sunni vs Shiite)
Cold War (Christian vs Atheist)??
Northern Ireland (Catholic vs. Protestant)
Bosnia conflict (Christian vs. Muslim)
Soviet ascension to power (Atheism vs. Eastern Orthodox)

Even neutral "conflicts" where religion was apart of the conflict but it makes no real difference. I think it could be classified as something like:

Soviet invasion of Afghanistan (Atheist vs. Muslim)- but there wasn't anything inherently religiously promoting it.

So im wondering if anyone can add to this list, or maybe comment on the list that i have with some facts.

Thanks all

lpfan
IMO the list you've compiled is a very short beginning. Most conflicts throughout human history have had religion at their core. Beginning from BC times, through to the Crusades and in modern times, people seem to constantly feel the need to say 'your belief is not as good as mine, therefore I must kill you." The current so-called "war on terror" is essentially a war(?) with religion at its core. I have never been able to understand (and maybe that's why I am an idealist?) why two people with different religious and political views can't simply say: you're opinion is different to mine, and I'm cool with that.
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  #34 (permalink)  
Old 03-16-2009
Secretary of State

 
Member Since: Jun 2006
Location: US, California - federalist
Posts: 5,339

   
Re: Religious Politics

I think it is due to a poverty of State-ism in those regions. In my opinion, any region experiencing excessive anarchy should be able to petition the UN for a republican form of government.
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  #35 (permalink)  
Old 03-17-2009
lpfan13612's Avatar
Lieutenant Governor

 
Member Since: Dec 2008
Location: United States
Posts: 395

United_States     Germany

Re: Religious Politics

Quote:
Originally Posted by jet57 View Post
I'm not so sure that's true. Churches in some areas, as I recall were allowed to go on. Many of the old churches still stand today. It was the influence of the church that was strictly curtailed. The communists sees the church as an inapropriate influence based on a superstition; I don't say that assertively, but rather as an educated guess based on what I know of the issue.
the statement that you replied to is VERY true. I am taking a graduate course on this information. Soviet era Religious persecution and such. the churches were left alone BUT it was illegal to attend, and the religious officials and those who remained loyal were persecuted.

lpfan
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  #36 (permalink)  
Old 03-17-2009
lpfan13612's Avatar
Lieutenant Governor

 
Member Since: Dec 2008
Location: United States
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Re: Religious Politics

Quote:
Originally Posted by noahath View Post
IMO the list you've compiled is a very short beginning. Most conflicts throughout human history have had religion at their core. Beginning from BC times, through to the Crusades and in modern times, people seem to constantly feel the need to say 'your belief is not as good as mine, therefore I must kill you." The current so-called "war on terror" is essentially a war(?) with religion at its core. I have never been able to understand (and maybe that's why I am an idealist?) why two people with different religious and political views can't simply say: you're opinion is different to mine, and I'm cool with that.
Its short because i am looking at a very limited amount of information. its supposed to be POST WWII religious conflicts. these are what influence the contemporary political world the most. not the crusades so much. And i would honestly stress the importance of the Cold War (IMO began in october of 1917). This provided the platform for religious inclusion in America, to combat the "godless commies".

ya know?

LPfan
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  #37 (permalink)  
Old 03-17-2009
Tim Tim is offline
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Re: Religious Politics

Religious faith has always been a highly significant and powerful factor in human life throughout history; the prevalence of atheism and materialism in the west is recent development and an anomaly.

Anythng that is a powerful motivating issue has been used as a cause for war. Power, money. honor, ambition, family quarrels and prestige are other powerful factors and they usually can't be separated. Those who wage war will use anything that is important to people.

There is nothing surprising about that.
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  #38 (permalink)  
Old 03-17-2009
Secretary of State

 
Member Since: Jun 2006
Location: US, California - federalist
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Re: Religious Politics

What is the opinion of religion and politics in the US, from the viewpoint of having "under God" in the pledge, but no legislated anti-hypocrisy laws or religious moral tests for Constitutional offices?

How can any political leader in the US be taken seriously, from a moral standpoint, if they have to resort to a form of affirmative action concerning morals?

From a public policy perspective, is it more moral to allow for official poverty while wasting taxpayer monies on public policy schemes that do not provide for the general welfare of the republic? By no latitude of construction can the wars on drugs and terror be considered providing for the common Defense or general Welfare of the United States. Why is it that those projects can be funded, at exorbitant cost to the taxpayer, if they are not specifically enumerated in our Constitution?

Eliminating official poverty could be said, with some latitude of construction, to provide for both the common Defense and general Welfare of the United States; by denying and disparaging (according to Aristotle) the parent of revolution and crime: poverty, as officially recognized with the full faith and credit of public acts of the United States.
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  #39 (permalink)  
Old 03-19-2009
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Re: Religious Politics

Quote:
Originally Posted by danielpalos View Post
I am not sure adding that phrase did anything for our own secular republic. We were already further along in our civil rights movement due to our Constitution. Even now, mostly religious laws, have only relatively recently been overturned in favor of our supreme code law of the land (the Constitution).
Could you provide a few examples of these "religious" laws and explain why you call them "religious" laws?
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  #40 (permalink)  
Old 03-19-2009
Secretary of State

 
Member Since: Jun 2006
Location: US, California - federalist
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Re: Religious Politics

Quote:
Originally Posted by hairballxavier View Post
Could you provide a few examples of these "religious" laws and explain why you call them "religious" laws?
Any laws based solely on religious moral values are general examples of religious laws.

We have a supreme code law of the land. It is called the US Constitution.
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  #41 (permalink)  
Old 03-19-2009
hairballxavier's Avatar
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Re: Religious Politics

Quote:
Originally Posted by danielpalos View Post
Any laws based solely on religious moral values are general examples of religious laws.
Could you give a few specific examples of these "religious" laws and explain why you call them "religious" laws?
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We the People of the United States, in Order to form a more perfect Union, establish Justice, insure domestic Tranquility, provide for the common defence, promote the general Welfare, and secure the Blessings of Liberty to ourselves and our Posterity, do ordain and establish this Constitution for the United States of America.
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  #42 (permalink)  
Old 03-19-2009
Secretary of State

 
Member Since: Jun 2006
Location: US, California - federalist
Posts: 5,339

   
Re: Religious Politics

A simple example would be the Ten Commandments. Almost everyone is familiar with them. Those "laws" are purely religious in nature. Being religious however, does not mean that they cannot serve secular and practical purposes; such as ensuring the domestic tranquility.
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  #43 (permalink)  
Old 03-19-2009
hairballxavier's Avatar
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    Ohio

Re: Religious Politics

Quote:
Originally Posted by danielpalos View Post
A simple example would be the Ten Commandments. Almost everyone is familiar with them. Those "laws" are purely religious in nature.
How did you come to that conclusion?
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We the People of the United States, in Order to form a more perfect Union, establish Justice, insure domestic Tranquility, provide for the common defence, promote the general Welfare, and secure the Blessings of Liberty to ourselves and our Posterity, do ordain and establish this Constitution for the United States of America.
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  #44 (permalink)  
Old 03-19-2009
hairballxavier's Avatar
Vice President
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Re: Religious Politics

Quote:
Originally Posted by danielpalos View Post
A simple example would be the Ten Commandments. Almost everyone is familiar with them. Those "laws" are purely religious in nature.
How did you come to that conclusion that they are "purely religious in nature"?
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... ..................
We the People of the United States, in Order to form a more perfect Union, establish Justice, insure domestic Tranquility, provide for the common defence, promote the general Welfare, and secure the Blessings of Liberty to ourselves and our Posterity, do ordain and establish this Constitution for the United States of America.
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  #45 (permalink)  
Old 03-19-2009
Secretary of State

 
Member Since: Jun 2006
Location: US, California - federalist
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Re: Religious Politics

Because they are promulgated in a religious text.
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