How has the Patriot Act affected you? - Page 6 - U.S. Politics Online: A Political Discussion Forum

Slon · #76 (**permalink**) 2 Weeks Ago

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Originally Posted by CYDdharta

Terrorist groups, such as al Qaeda have decided that any American anywhere in the world is a target. This gives law enforcement more tools to try to erase those targets.

So you would still remain a target, no?

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We also don’t know how many attacks have been averted by terrorists who believed their plans and/or their lines of communication had been compromised by the Patriot Act, but we do know of 27 separate attacks on US soil that have been thwarted by law enforcement since it was enacted.

What attacks are those? Were they thwarted thanks to the PA?

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This is a choice between potentials. Which is worse; potentially more terrorism in the US, or the government potentially misusing the authority it’s been granted. Personally, I trust the government more than the terrorists.

But that's not the choice. The choice is between guaranteed loss of freedom and possible terrorism or no guarantee of loss of freedom and possible attacks. The thing is, it's not a choice between trusting the government or the terrorists since neither choice puts additional governing power into the hands of terrorists.

John Drake · #77 (**permalink**) 2 Weeks Ago

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Originally Posted by Mandrake

The Patriot Act affected me the most when I saw this on a payphone:

"This conversation is being monitored by the U.S. government courtesy of the USA Patriot Act 2001, Sec 216 of which permits all phone calls to be recorded without a warrant or other notification."

Can't say if any of my home and/or cell phone conversations, (not to mention internet activity,) have been monitored or recorded by a third party.

I saw that and it was BULLSHIT, after 30 minutes looking for the handle I finally noticed there wasn't even any place for the beer to come out

CYDdharta · #78 (**permalink**) 2 Weeks Ago

Quote:

Originally Posted by Slon

So you would still remain a target, no?

Sure; what’s your point? Without guarantees we should never do anything?

Quote:

Originally Posted by Slon

What attacks are those? Were they thwarted thanks to the PA?

Terrorist plots uncovered in the US since 9/11 | csmonitor.com
What's behind string of terror plots | csmonitor.com

Quote:

Originally Posted by Slon

But that's not the choice. The choice is between guaranteed loss of freedom and possible terrorism or no guarantee of loss of freedom and possible attacks. The thing is, it's not a choice between trusting the government or the terrorists since neither choice puts additional governing power into the hands of terrorists.

Specifically, what freedoms have you lost due to the PA?

Your other argument is entirely specious, since you’re limiting it strictly to governmental power. That would be like saying neither choice puts additional terrorist intimidation powers in the hands of the government.

Traveler · #79 (**permalink**) 2 Weeks Ago

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Originally Posted by SArrow

Then you need to buy a clue.

Oh great, another know-it-all about to make an ass of himself.

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Originally Posted by SArrow

Thanks for demonstrating a complete lack of a grasp of the Constitution.

What does the constitution have to do with this? (what we're discussing here).

Stick to the point.

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Don't call yourself a conservative. It's embarrassing.

Education, look into it.

See, this is what happens when you get into the middle of a conversation, without knowing jack shit about it.

Disillusioned_1 · #80 (**permalink**) 2 Weeks Ago

Quote:

Originally Posted by BillyWitchDr.

This guy was effected,
YouTube - USA using Patriot Act against its own citizens

This ought to disturb the hell out of everyone.

CYDdharta · #81 (**permalink**) 2 Weeks Ago

Quote:

Originally Posted by BillyWitchDr.

This guy was effected,
YouTube - USA using Patriot Act against its own citizens

That guy was an f-ing idiot.

Teenage Bomb Threat Suspect Was Internet Prank-Call Star | Threat Level | Wired.com

-edit- Just listened to the bomb threats he taped. He doesn't even rate f-ing idiot. He's being charged as an adult for making numerous bomb threat pranks (which you can listen to on the link above).

wrxsti · #82 (**permalink**) 2 Weeks Ago

As long as the PA provisions can be used in bipartisan ways that satisfy both sides, I'm ok with it. I'd like to know who had been giving money to the anti-gay marriage folks in Maine and California. After all, suppressing people's rights is not very patriotic.

SArrow · #83 (**permalink**) 2 Weeks Ago

Quote:

Originally Posted by Traveler

Oh great, another know-it-all about to make an ass of himself.

What does the constitution have to do with this? (what we're discussing here).

Stick to the point.

Short term memory problems? You said you favored centralized power of the government. The Constitution is designed to avoid that.

Get a fucking clue about the US Constitution and the founding principles of this country.

Quote:

See, this is what happens when you get into the middle of a conversation, without knowing jack shit about it.

As I said, look into an education. I imagine there is a 'for Dummies' annotated edition of the US Constitution.

Traveler · #84 (**permalink**) 2 Weeks Ago

Quote:

Originally Posted by SArrow

Short term memory problems? You said you favored centralized power of the government. The Constitution is designed to avoid that.

Get a fucking clue about the US Constitution and the founding principles of this country.

Wow, i gave you a "get out" clause, and you come back with something even more retarded.

We weren't talking about the legality of the Patriot Act, we're talking about the philosophical and ideological effect on conservatism.

You're confusing issues, stick to the point. If this is too much for you, try sticking to things that infantile 5 year old morons are good for.

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As I said, look into an education. I imagine there is a 'for Dummies' annotated edition of the US Constitution.

Presumably, seeing as you seem to have studied from it.

Don't start a pissing contest with me, i'll give you another chance to hightail it, given that i am in a sympathetic mood today.

Btw, try reading other books in the "for dummies" section too, like one that might teach you the basics of a discussion.

BillyWitchDr. · #85 (**permalink**) 2 Weeks Ago

Quote:

Originally Posted by Steve

Well, maybe he'll be kind enough to come here and post. Again, read the title of the thread...

I personally have to be effected by something to have an opinion on it?

SArrow · #86 (**permalink**) 2 Weeks Ago

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Originally Posted by Traveler

Wow, i gave you a "get out" clause, and you come back with something even more retarded. ....

You gave me a what??? LMFAO.

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We weren't talking about the legality of the Patriot Act,

Nor was I. I was addressing your embarassing idea that conservatives like centralized power in their government. Look at your own words then look at the title of the thread. Or, are you intoxicated? Hard to tell.

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we're talking about the philosophical and ideological effect on conservatism.

Yes. And you are an embarrassment to all who call themselves conservatives since you like a centralized power in government.

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You're confusing issues, stick to the point. If this is too much for you, try sticking to things that infantile 5 year old morons are good for.

I fear that I may be communicating with one, especially when you can't remember your own words favoring centralized power in government, what the founders designed against. Did you really want us to think you ever learned that?

The rest of your hissy fit is just too infantile to even comment on.

All I can say in summary is anyone who favors centralized power in the US government is clueless on the founding principles (that would be the US Constitution) of this country and is thus an embarrassment to those who call themselves conservatives. And, I dare say and know, it's embarrassing to those who call themselves liberals, too.

You've spouted authoritarian bullshit which has nothing to do with being an American, liberal or conservative.

Traveler · #87 (**permalink**) 2 Weeks Ago

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Originally Posted by SArrow

You gave me a what??? LMFAO.

A chance to leave the thread without me having hand you your ass on a plate. You must be a massochist. (Sp?)

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Nor was I.

So why did you start talking about the constitutionality of it? Or is that just you cringeworthy talking points being spouted because you don't support the Patriot Act?

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I was addressing your embarassing idea that conservatives like centralized power in their government.

Read what i said again....read it a little more carefully. (Never did i use the word "like", at all). Don't just randomly make shit up, even if it is the best you can do.

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Look at your own words then look at the title of the thread. Or, are you intoxicated? Hard to tell.

Looked again, looked at what you said, you still look an ass and i still haven't said conservatives like centralized power.

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Yes. And you are an embarrassment to all who call themselves conservatives since you like a centralized power in government.

Glad you clarified that part up. I was gonna ask who i was an embarrasment too, but gladly, you didn't put yourself in that catergory or try and pass yourself off as a conservative.

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I fear that I may be communicating with one

Man, your attempts to communicate is half the problem. If you'd just STFU and go draw in the corner with your crayons like a good little boy/girl, we wouldn't have such a problem.

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especially when you can't remember your own words favoring centralized power in government, what the founders designed against.

So now i favor it? Sure it isn't that all conservatives "like" it, like you alluded to above? Make up your mind, about which load of shit you're gonna spout, and then stick to it.

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Did you really want us to think you ever learned that?

What? Learned what? Again. Seriously, what do our founding fathers now have to do with this. Nobody even mentionned the constitution until you started babling. If you want a historical debate on the issue, go to the appropriate forum and open a debate as such. If you wanna talk about its constitutionality, go to the appropriate forum and start a thread as such. Don't hijack this one with your menstruational histrionics.

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The rest of your hissy fit is just too infantile to even comment on.

Ah yes, you can dish it out but you can't handle it!

You're fine to go round running your mouth like someone who has rabies, but when someone fires back you go running to your mommy...

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All I can say in summary is anyone who favors centralized power in the US government is clueless on the founding principles (that would be the US Constitution) of this country and is thus an embarrassment to those who call themselves conservatives. And, I dare say and know, it's embarrassing to those who call themselves liberals, too.

You've spouted authoritarian bullshit which has nothing to do with being an American.

Another rant, but at least this time you're making your agenda a bit clearer.

Now if you could read (which you seem to think you can, even though you misrepresent what others say), you would realize that i did speak of the authoritarian and facist nature of some of my own support behind the act.

SArrow · #88 (**permalink**) 2 Weeks Ago

Quote:

Originally Posted by Traveler

A chance to leave the thread without me having hand you your ass on a plate. You must be a massochist. (Sp?)

So why did you start talking about the constitutionality of it? Or is that just you cringeworthy talking points being spouted because you don't support the Patriot Act?

Read what i said again....read it a little more carefully. (Never did i use the word "like", at all). Don't just randomly make shit up, even if it is the best you can do.

Looked again, looked at what you said, you still look an ass and i still haven't said conservatives like centralized power.

Glad you clarified that part up. I was gonna ask who i was an embarrasment too, but gladly, you didn't put yourself in that catergory or try and pass yourself off as a conservative.

Man, your attempts to communicate is half the problem. If you'd just STFU and go draw in the corner with your crayons like a good little boy/girl, we wouldn't have such a problem.

So now i favor it? Sure it isn't that all conservatives "like" it, like you alluded to above? Make up your mind, about which load of shit you're gonna spout, and then stick to it.

What? Learned what? Again. Seriously, what do our founding fathers now have to do with this. Nobody even mentionned the constitution until you started babling. If you want a historical debate on the issue, go to the appropriate forum and open a debate as such. If you wanna talk about its constitutionality, go to the appropriate forum and start a thread as such. Don't hijack this one with your menstruational histrionics.

Ah yes, you can dish it out but you can't handle it!

You're fine to go round running your mouth like someone who has rabies, but when someone fires back you go running to your mommy...

Another rant, but at least this time you're making your agenda a bit clearer.

Now if you could read (which you seem to think you can, even though you misrepresent what others say), you would realize that i did speak of the authoritarian and facist nature of some of my own support behind the act.

How very infantile that you haven't the capacity to connect your desire for a centralized power in government, how that is in conflict with the Constitution, and how that actually relates to the topic of the thread.

Your emotional reaction is a joke in how over the top it is - typical reaction of those who haven't the character to admit any error, often found in children.

And, your authoritarian attitudes have little to do with conservative or liberal Americans. Perhaps you are angry at yourself for revealing that attitude? Most of us learned how that is one of the bases upon which this country was founded - no centralized power. You know, the three branches? Man, is this a remedial politics site? I know for a fact that Texans in general aren't that clueless about the founding principles of the USA. Hell, even Mississippians know better.

Traveler · #89 (**permalink**) 2 Weeks Ago

Seriously, if you'd like to just randomly make up arguments, and then beat the shit out of them, you don't need me here to do that.

You can just debate with yourself whole day. (Nobody even mentionned the constitution or the founding fathers until you did, and then you proceeded to tell us how opposed they would be to the Patriot Act when nobody else said otherwise).

Btw there is little emotion in my posts towards you, if there was, you'd know about it. I pity you a little, enjoy making fun of you a bit, and that's about it. I'm not angry at all btw, i have never shunned any of the more authoritarian views i have.

Now you can continue to go ahead and behave like an imbecile if you so chose.

Disillusioned_1 · #90 (**permalink**) 2 Weeks Ago

Quote:

Originally Posted by CYDdharta

That guy was an f-ing idiot.

Teenage Bomb Threat Suspect Was Internet Prank-Call Star | Threat Level | Wired.com

-edit- Just listened to the bomb threats he taped. He doesn't even rate f-ing idiot. He's being charged as an adult for making numerous bomb threat pranks (which you can listen to on the link above).

"The FBI — armed with a search warrant and a criminal complaint — swooped in on Annette Lundeby’s home at 10:00 p.m. the next day, seized computers and arrested her son."

Thanks for the extra information. The patriot act wasn't used in this case. A warrant was issued and he was arrested. He isn't even being held on terrorism charges.

"Responding to the internet outrage on Thursday, the U.S. attorney’s office for the Northern District of Indiana issued a press release (.pdf) emphasizing the the teenager is not being held on terrorism charges. The case “alleges a violation of Title 18, United States Code, Section 844(e), which prohibits sending false information about an attempt to kill, injure or intimidate any individual or to unlawfully to damage any building through an instrument of interstate commerce,” the prosecutors wrote."

"In truth, making telephone bomb threats has been a federal crime since 1939. The teenager is being held without bail in Indiana, but he’s been formally charged, has a court-appointed attorney, and has already made three appearances in front of a judge. The case is sealed because the suspect is a minor."

The fact that this case was apparently dealt with withOUT the use of the patriot act is just additional evidence that the patriot act is completely unneccessary and therefore should be abolished.

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