I am curious.

I have been hearing lots of hatred against the Patriot Act for years now. People claim that it will be bringing out total fascism. That civil rights will go away. That people can be arrested and placed in jail forever without trial. That search warrents will no longer be needed and law enforcement would be doing "midnight raids". That immigrants will be locked up in concentration camps.

And how much of this have I seen?

None.

So tell me, how has the Patriot Act actually affected your life? Has anybody here (or an immediate family member-friend) been locked up for violating it? Have any of you been pulled in for questioning by the FBI for having "Anti-American Views"?

I do not want to hear trite speculation. No "they may be listening to my conversations", that is tinfoil hat land. Real things, real events. How many have been pulled in and questioned. How many arrested.

Because according to so many, this is absolute evil. yet I have heard of none of these events happening. Is the "Nazi Media" keeping it a secret from us? Are there really concentration camps in Missouri, full of people who simply said they US is evil, so they are locked up without trial?

My arab friend, she lives in Miami... every time she travels outside or into the US... she gets stopped at the airport for one of those "random checks".... every single time. Same for her brothers who conduct business around the country.

This is what I call the US gone mad with paranoia and discrimination.

Hey I have a good point to make, ....few of those Al Qaeda members are white American. If you dont stop every single white American at the airport for a "randon check", one of those days, someone is bound to slip in back from a holiday in Afghanistan.

Ah well!! This is why I rarely travel to the US.... too much stereotyping and you get accused of "terrorism" now and then. These draconian Acts will not help! Thats when they start to sht on people's liberties and freedom.

WS.

__________________
"You can't separate peace from freedom because no one can be at peace unless he has his freedom"- Malcom X

It's not so much about what the government is doing as what it is allowed to do. My life hasn't been changed one bit by the PATRIOT Act, but the back door has been left unlocked for the government. If I publicly voice my distaste for the American government and suggest a real change, that door is open to any number of law enforcement agencies.

__________________
During the journey we commonly forget its goal. Almost every profession is chosen as a means to an end but continued as an end in itself. Forgetting our objectives is the most frequent act of stupidity.
-Friedrich Nietzsche, The Wanderer and his Shadow

All good socialists have villas in Southern France. That's not the point.
-Eurosocialist

I find the Patriot Act extremely insulting to my freedoms but at the same time I know no government agency is actually "spying" on your average American.

Do you really think the government is interested in your moms cookie recipe?

The facts are we breakup 3-4 plots of terrorism a year so the threat is there by terrorists.

__________________
Sic Semper Tyrannis






http://www.myspace.com/swoop187muzic

Seeing I don't have phone conversations with overseas terrorists, I haven't been effected at all other than no one has crashed a plane into my house since 9/11.

it was harder for me to open a bank account for my kid and the privacy notifications are annoying but I have not been blowed up so I guess not so much.

__________________
Socialism doesn't create a rising tide that lifts all boats. It drains the lake and teaches the boat riders not to help themselves by rowing.

Jesus loves you, allah wants you dead

"Every government interference in the economy consists of giving an unearned benefit, extorted by force, to some men at the expense of others."

Ayn Rand

Not an iota...

__________________



For those who have fought to defend it, freedom has a taste the protected will never know...



If it wasn't for double standards, liberals would have no standards at all...

Not at all.

__________________
Want government run healthcare? Join the military.

I think the fact that the Patriot Act has resulted in the stopping of many terrorist plots I would say the it has affected everyone one of us, it has made us all safer.

__________________


"You cannot legislate the poor into prosperity by legislating the wealthy out of prosperity."

Yes, if methods covered by the Patriot Act have been involved in thwarting any terrorist plots over the years.

That has nothing to do with the Patriot Act. That is the TSA, and was enacted in December 2001, 2 months after the Patriot Act went into effect.

And it is not just your friend. I am also on that list, and it has caused me no end of problems. It seems that there is a Jordanian with connections to Hammas, that uses my name as an alias.

Whenever I fly, I have to see a ticket agent. I can not use self-service ticket purchasing, nor can I use self-service check-in. And every time I check-in, I have to wait at least 15 minutes while the agent contacts the TSA to authorize my trip.

A few months ago, this caused a real issue. I flew home for my wife's surgery, and had to change planes in Dallas. When I went to get my ticket for El Paso, I was put into custody. All the TSA saw was somebody on the "No Fly List" arriving in Dallas from a flight from Kuwait. The agent even tried to tell them I was military, in uniform, and had arrived on a military charter flight.

No good, it took almost 2 hours to get cleared so I could continue my trip home.

But those issues are not from the Patriot Act. They stem from a different and unrelated act, that was enacted 2 months later.

If it were not for Liberals you would not be able to post such a remark.

__________________
Laws are purchased-Justice is prayed for.

Laws that can take effect in cases like that are already on the books. There are literally hundreds of laws that can be used in that instance. They do not need the Patriot Act to act if they really wanted to.

But I have not heard of a single case of that happening.

And if people think their rights are being violated now, they are lucky they were not around for the administration of Presidents Lincoln and FDR.

No. You don't know that "no government agency is actually spying on your average American." It is the nature of successful spying to not be detected. You may believe that this is the case (that there is no spying on average Americans), but you can't by the very nature of spying know that it is the case.

Liberals wrote the Bill of Rights?!?!?!?!

Holy fuck! I didn't realize.

Silly me. I thought that it was our founding fathers who believed that we had inalienable rights that were endowed by our Creator.

Silly silly silly me. It was LIBERALS!!!!

Ahhhhh it's all clear to me now!

Or... are you saying that he wouldn't have been able to post that since Algore invented the internet... he is a liberal... and without Algore there would be no internet to post on. Hence.... without a liberal there would be no internet.

Sorry.... maybe I just misunderstood.