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War & Peace A forum to discuss the current conflict with Iraq, North Korea, and the war on terrorism, as well as military/defense policy in general.

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  #91 (permalink)  
Old 11-09-2009
Steerpike's Avatar
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Re: Military Service

Quote:
Originally Posted by TheLastBoyScout View Post
If you thought it a fruitful academic exercise, that's great.

I enjoy philosophical discussion, but I would not been much a participant in that one as I could not get beyond the premise. It led me to a practical, rather than philosophical conclusion. The practical choice excludes me from appropriately considering the others.

If that is the lesson, instead of the actual merit of the options, then good show professor. Good show indeed.
Philosophy and practicality are not mutually exclusive. If you enjoy philosophical discussion virtually anything of a policy nature that is discussed in a forum such as this has a philosophical basis. So you can enjoy such discussions.

This is enough meta-discussion.
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  #92 (permalink)  
Old 11-09-2009
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Re: Military Service

Quote:
Originally Posted by Steerpike View Post
This question came up in a philosophy course. It may make for interesting discussion.

We will keep the players fictional so we can look to theory.

You are an adviser to the president of Freedonia, Rufus T. Firefly. The neighboring country of Sylvania is expected to declare war soon. President Firefly wants to know what is the fairest approach for Freedonia to use to fill its military manpower needs in defense.

You have three options:

1. All volunteer
2. Volunteer and mercenary
3. Draft

How would you respond to President Firefly and why?
Sorry I haven't read trough the thread, but what political system/philosophy is Sylvania following?

I mean as an adviser one needs to know the enemy to give advise, so without further information no real conclusion can be made.

Anyway you haven't asked, but as adviser to (a maybe non democratic) Sylvania, I would drive the hyper nationalist card; aka Freedonians are subhumans, Freedonians have been our archenemy and cause of all trouble 4ever, Freedonia's existances and occupation of our fellow Sylvanian brothers/lands is a threat to our freedom and so on= finally it's payback time!

So the adivise to the Sylvanian leadership would be a 3 year draft system (=in reality a professional army), in the hope that the political system of Freedonia is too slow to understand, what kind of a drafted, professional force is being built up next to the border + being heated up by a lust for revenge and conquer and years of training.

Sylvania will win in such a case, as Freedonia will rely on it's volunteer force, which was build for normal times and due to the strings attached to widen such a force, Freedonia won't have the political will or power to switch to hyper (voluntarily)militarisation.

Whether the Freedonian system is worth to fight for or not doesn't matter in such a case, as Sylvania will just overrun them with force/manpower.

Sylvania has been training it's sons for 3 years, so even a high number of not 100% motivated drafties, won't change the outcome.

Anyway it's just an idea for a Sylvanian perspective.
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  #93 (permalink)  
Old 11-10-2009
TheLastBoyScout's Avatar
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Re: Military Service

Quote:
Originally Posted by Steerpike View Post
Philosophy and practicality are not mutually exclusive. If you enjoy philosophical discussion virtually anything of a policy nature that is discussed in a forum such as this has a philosophical basis. So you can enjoy such discussions.

This is enough meta-discussion.
Not mutually exclusive.

But when you do what you must...what you have to, there is little room for philosophical exploration. Granted, it was a hypothetical, but that hypothetical had some very limiting parameters.
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  #94 (permalink)  
Old 11-10-2009
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Re: Military Service

Quote:
Originally Posted by Steerpike View Post
This question came up in a philosophy course. It may make for interesting discussion.

We will keep the players fictional so we can look to theory.

You are an adviser to the president of Freedonia, Rufus T. Firefly. The neighboring country of Sylvania is expected to declare war soon. President Firefly wants to know what is the fairest approach for Freedonia to use to fill its military manpower needs in defense.

You have three options:

1. All volunteer
2. Volunteer and mercenary
3. Draft

How would you respond to President Firefly and why?

if war is imminent then its too late to worry about it, you've got what you got and need to start training them accordingly.
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  #95 (permalink)  
Old 11-10-2009
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Re: Military Service

Quote:
Originally Posted by Steerpike View Post
This question came up in a philosophy course. It may make for interesting discussion.

We will keep the players fictional so we can look to theory.

You are an adviser to the president of Freedonia, Rufus T. Firefly. The neighboring country of Sylvania is expected to declare war soon. President Firefly wants to know what is the fairest approach for Freedonia to use to fill its military manpower needs in defense.

You have three options:

1. All volunteer
2. Volunteer and mercenary
3. Draft

How would you respond to President Firefly and why?
Option number 2, but replace mercenary with private contractor. Obviously a draft isn't right. It is up to the people to stand up and fight for what's right. If you force someone to do something against their will then they aren't going to give you 100%.
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  #96 (permalink)  
Old 11-10-2009
Secretary of Defense

 
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Re: Military Service

Quote:
Originally Posted by AjaxPress View Post
Option number 2, but replace mercenary with private contractor. Obviously a draft isn't right. It is up to the people to stand up and fight for what's right. If you force someone to do something against their will then they aren't going to give you 100%.
private contractor = mercenary. they are the exact same thing.
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  #97 (permalink)  
Old 11-10-2009
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Re: Military Service

Quote:
Originally Posted by reality View Post
private contractor = mercenary. they are the exact same thing.
I wouldn't be so sure. For example, look at Blackwater. They have a vested interest, besides money, in seeing America succeed and/or 'win'. Mercs have no vested interest, outside of being paid, in seeing any side 'win'.
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  #98 (permalink)  
Old 11-10-2009
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Re: Military Service

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Originally Posted by ThorHammer View Post
I wouldn't be so sure. For example, look at Blackwater. They have a vested interest, besides money, in seeing America succeed and/or 'win'. Mercs have no vested interest, outside of being paid, in seeing any side 'win'.
Well at the moment Blackwater seems to have a vested interest, but it's only due to the fact that the other side wouldn't pay the same amount of money and Blackwater would get into trouble providing services to the other side.

The picture probably changes, when Blackwater gets involved with countries only half allied or side lined by the US and with such clients their back in the filthy Mercs business.
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  #99 (permalink)  
Old 11-10-2009
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Re: Military Service

Quote:
Originally Posted by Stapo View Post
Well at the moment Blackwater seems to have a vested interest, but it's only due to the fact that the other side wouldn't pay the same amount of money and Blackwater would get into trouble providing services to the other side.

The picture probably changes, when Blackwater gets involved with countries only half allied or side lined by the US and with such clients their back in the filthy Mercs business.
I don't think companies like Blackwater, that are based in the United States, would fight against the United States if paid to do so. To a merc would fight anyone, even his own countrymen, if they were paid. To me that is what seperates private contractors and mercs.
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  #100 (permalink)  
Old 11-10-2009
Stapo's Avatar
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Re: Military Service

Quote:
Originally Posted by AjaxPress View Post
Option number 2, but replace mercenary with private contractor. Obviously a draft isn't right. It is up to the people to stand up and fight for what's right. If you force someone to do something against their will then they aren't going to give you 100%.
That's why every good military "breaks" the will of a soldier (draft or volunteer) and due to drill and training makes sure that he functions under stress, no matter what his true will is.

It's all just a question of good/intensive training and leadership, whether the soldier volunteered or was drafted doesn't matter.

Apart from that I don't view it as obvious that a draft isn't right, it's just a social/political desicions every society/generation has to make.
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