Visit the U.S. Politics Online Discussion Forum Archives!

Sponsored by:

U.S. Politics Online: A Political Discussion Forum  

Bookmark Us! E-Mail DONATE NOW! Photo Gallery Document Archives Quiz! Register to Vote!!!
Go Back   U.S. Politics Online: A Political Discussion Forum > Current Events > War & Peace
Register Blogs FAQ Members List Calendar Mark Forums Read

War & Peace A forum to discuss the current conflict with Iraq, North Korea, and the war on terrorism, as well as military/defense policy in general.

Reply
 
LinkBack Thread Tools Display Modes
  #1 (permalink)  
Old 12-19-2009
U.S. House Representative

 
Member Since: Sep 2007
Location: Detroit
Posts: 625

   
Obama told China: I can't stop Israel strike on Iran indefinitely

Not a NeoCon Republican, huh?

We can't attack now, we need time to make up an excuse, before starting another proxy war...

Obama told China: I can't stop Israel strike on Iran indefinitely

"U.S. President Barack Obama has warned his Chinese counterpart that the United States would not be able to keep Israel from attacking Iranian nuclear installations for much longer, senior officials in Jerusalem told Haaretz."

"They said Obama warned President Hu Jintao during the American's visit to Beijing a month ago as part of the U.S. attempt to convince the Chinese to support strict sanctions on Tehran if it does not accept Western proposals for its nuclear program. "

"The Israeli officials, who asked to remain anonymous due to the sensitivity of the matter, said the United States had informed Israel on Obama's meetings in Beijing on Iran. They said Obama made it clear to Hu that at some point the United States would no longer be able to prevent Israel from acting as it saw fit in response to the perceived Iranian threat. "

Obama told China: I can't stop Israel strike on Iran indefinitely - Haaretz - Israel News
Reply With Quote
  #2 (permalink)  
Old 12-19-2009
Steerpike's Avatar
Joint Chiefs of Staff Member

 
Member Since: Nov 2007
Location: Western Hemisphere
Posts: 1,500

   
Re: Obama told China: I can't stop Israel strike on Iran indefinitely

Quote:
The Israeli officials, who asked to remain anonymous due to the sensitivity of the matter, said the United States had informed Israel on Obama's meetings in Beijing on Iran. They said Obama made it clear to Hu that at some point the United States would no longer be able to prevent Israel from acting as it saw fit in response to the perceived Iranian threat.
The United States is not "preventing" Israel from acting as it sees fit. Israel, as a sovereign nation, acts as it sees fit just as other sovereign nations do.
For the moment, Israel "sees fit" to not take military action, but that could change, and the United States can't "prevent" that. The most the United States could do is to discourage such behavior, but it can not, in the final analysis, "prevent" it.
__________________
"Justice is the first virtue of social institutions, as truth is of systems of thought." - John Rawls

"Those who will not reason, are bigots, those who cannot, are fools, and those who dare not, are slaves. " - Lord Byron

"Knowledge makes men gentle, and reason inclines toward humanity; only prejudices cause these to be renounced." - Montesquieu
Reply With Quote
  #3 (permalink)  
Old 12-19-2009
daddio's Avatar
Vice President

 
Member Since: Jun 2008
Location: the south
Posts: 9,784

United_States     Virginia

Re: Obama told China: I can't stop Israel strike on Iran indefinitely

Quote:
Originally Posted by Steerpike View Post
The United States is not "preventing" Israel from acting as it sees fit. Israel, as a sovereign nation, acts as it sees fit just as other sovereign nations do.
For the moment, Israel "sees fit" to not take military action, but that could change, and the United States can't "prevent" that. The most the United States could do is to discourage such behavior, but it can not, in the final analysis, "prevent" it.


its trying though


Quote:
Exclusive: Pentagon delays new "bunker buster" bomb
WASHINGTON
Fri Dec 18, 2009 6:56pm EST

WASHINGTON (Reuters) - A "bunker buster" bomb with more than 10 times the explosive power of its predecessor will be put into service by the United States next December, six months later than previously scheduled, the U.S. Defense Department told Reuters on Friday.
__________________
Socialism doesn't create a rising tide that lifts all boats. It drains the lake and teaches the boat riders not to help themselves by rowing.

Jesus loves you, allah wants you dead

"Every government interference in the economy consists of giving an unearned benefit, extorted by force, to some men at the expense of others."

Ayn Rand
Reply With Quote
  #4 (permalink)  
Old 12-19-2009
U.S. House Representative
Speed King

 
Member Since: Mar 2009
Location: Maryland, U.S.A
Posts: 668

United_States     Japan

Post Re: Obama told China: I can't stop Israel strike on Iran indefinitely

Yeah! And why would we want to discourage Israel in the first place? Why do we even need to intervene in such matters? I bet, if we let Israel and Iran do their thing, we could possibly eliminate two birds without having to throw a single stone! We need to break away from our alliance with Israel! It hasn't done us one bit of good in my opinion!
Reply With Quote
  #5 (permalink)  
Old 12-19-2009
daddio's Avatar
Vice President

 
Member Since: Jun 2008
Location: the south
Posts: 9,784

United_States     Virginia

Re: Obama told China: I can't stop Israel strike on Iran indefinitely

Quote:
Originally Posted by RRAHH View Post
Yeah! And why would we want to discourage Israel in the first place? Why do we even need to intervene in such matters? I bet, if we let Israel and Iran do their thing, we could possibly eliminate two birds without having to throw a single stone! We need to break away from our alliance with Israel! It hasn't done us one bit of good in my opinion!

kept Hussein at bay for quite a while. AND they piss off muslims. thats worth at least some style points !
__________________
Socialism doesn't create a rising tide that lifts all boats. It drains the lake and teaches the boat riders not to help themselves by rowing.

Jesus loves you, allah wants you dead

"Every government interference in the economy consists of giving an unearned benefit, extorted by force, to some men at the expense of others."

Ayn Rand
Reply With Quote
  #6 (permalink)  
Old 12-19-2009
Frankly's Avatar
Active Citizen

 
Member Since: Dec 2009
Location: U.S.A.
Posts: 90

United_States    
Re: Obama told China: I can't stop Israel strike on Iran indefinitely

Quote:
China Doesn't Yen For Much More US Debt

Obama just had a face-to-face with the Chinese. No matter how you slice it this is bad and makes him look like a fool. Did he even mention the debt financing issue, or was it just not important enough what with one of his key politcal issues, the climate scam, on his mind? Are his priorites that screwed up? That just might be the case. And if he did bring it up, it's more epic fail. There seems to be a lot of that with this guy running things, or trying to, perhaps. Also might be a leverage play on China's part. At least they seem to know what they're doing.

In a discussion on the global role of the dollar, Zhu told an academic audience that it was inevitable that the dollar would continue to fall in value because Washington continued to issue more Treasuries to finance its deficit spending.

He then addressed where demand for that debt would come from.

"The United States cannot force foreign governments to increase their holdings of Treasuries," Zhu said, according to an audio recording of his remarks. "Double the holdings? It is definitely impossible."

"The US current account deficit is falling as residents' savings increase, so its trade turnover is falling, which means the US is supplying fewer dollars to the rest of the world," he added. "The world does not have so much money to buy more US Treasuries."

Riehl World View
Considering such things as the above, Obama is foolish to think that China is going to do us any favors in regards to Iran.

Quote:
WASHINGTON – US President Barack Obama this week signed the 2010 foreign aid budget law which includes $2.775 billion in security aid to Israel. This is the second year the budget is transferred to the Jewish state as part of understandings that the American assistance to Israel in the coming decade will total $30 billion.

The approved budget comprises, for the first time, $500 million in aid to the Palestinian Authority, including $100 million for the training of Palestinian security forces by American general Keith Dayton.

The aid will be handed over to the Palestinians under the condition that the American taxpayers' money will only be transferred to a Palestinian government whose members accept the conditions of the international Quartet – the United States, Russia, the European Union and the United Nations. The conditions include recognizing Israel, renouncing violence and accepting past agreements signed with the Jewish state.

For the first time, the American foreign aid budget law includes a clause forbidding American export and import banks to use the aid funds for providing guarantees, insurance or credit to companies sullying refined oil to Iran.

Obama approves aid to Israel, PA - Israel News, Ynetnews
Obama approves aid to Israel, PA - Israel News, Ynetnews
Obama perhaps with more foolishness thinks by giving financial aid to Israel he can tell Israel what to do and what not to do.
Reply With Quote
  #7 (permalink)  
Old 12-19-2009
County Executive
Semitic

 
Member Since: Jun 2009
Location: my house
Posts: 340

Saudi    
Re: Obama told China: I can't stop Israel strike on Iran indefinitely

The U.S. would "condemn" the Israeli strike, and Iran would not retaliate. it would be similar to the Iraq strike, but this time the Arabs will help Israel.

Whats making me wonder, why is China refusing to lose their ties with Iran. Russia and Nkorea seem they are ditching Iran, but not China. If its oil, then there is a U.S.-Saudi deal on the table for China, and china seems to decline. I wonder whats their interests with Iran? or is it just the "chinese ego"?

From the article
Quote:
Saudi Arabia, which is also very worried about the Iranian nuclear program and keen to advance international steps against Iran, offered to supply the Chinese the same quantity of oil the Iranians now provide, and at much cheaper prices. But China rejected the deal.
Since Obama's visit, the Chinese have refused to join any measures to impose sanctions. The Israeli officials say the Chinese have been giving unclear answers and have not been responding to the claims by Western nations. Beijing has been making do with statements such as "the time has not yet arrived for sanctions
__________________
English is my 3rd language
Reply With Quote
  #8 (permalink)  
Old 12-19-2009
Frankly's Avatar
Active Citizen

 
Member Since: Dec 2009
Location: U.S.A.
Posts: 90

United_States    
Re: Obama told China: I can't stop Israel strike on Iran indefinitely

Quote:
Originally Posted by sami View Post
The U.S. would "condemn" the Israeli strike, and Iran would not retaliate.
Not only the U.S. but many other nations publicly would do that, but privately many would approve of it knowing that Israel did the whole world a big favor, which indeed it would be.
Reply With Quote
  #9 (permalink)  
Old 12-19-2009
County Executive
Semitic

 
Member Since: Jun 2009
Location: my house
Posts: 340

Saudi    
Re: Obama told China: I can't stop Israel strike on Iran indefinitely

Quote:
Originally Posted by Frankly View Post
Not only the U.S. but many other nations publicly would do that, but privately many would approve of it knowing that Israel did the whole world a big favor, which indeed it would be.
agree. Arab states have to give IDF airspace clearance for Iran strike, too.
__________________
English is my 3rd language
Reply With Quote
  #10 (permalink)  
Old 12-23-2009
Secretary of Defense
Incrementally from Smiley to Big Bad Bill to NOT SO Sweet William :)

 
Member Since: Sep 2007
Location: south west usa
Posts: 2,674
Blog Entries: 88

United_States     Texas

Re: Obama told China: I can't stop Israel strike on Iran indefinitely

Quote:
Originally Posted by theGhoul View Post
Not a NeoCon Republican, huh?

We can't attack now, we need time to make up an excuse, before starting another proxy war...

Obama told China: I can't stop Israel strike on Iran indefinitely

"U.S. President Barack Obama has warned his Chinese counterpart that the United States would not be able to keep Israel from attacking Iranian nuclear installations for much longer, senior officials in Jerusalem told Haaretz."

"They said Obama warned President Hu Jintao during the American's visit to Beijing a month ago as part of the U.S. attempt to convince the Chinese to support strict sanctions on Tehran if it does not accept Western proposals for its nuclear program. "

"The Israeli officials, who asked to remain anonymous due to the sensitivity of the matter, said the United States had informed Israel on Obama's meetings in Beijing on Iran. They said Obama made it clear to Hu that at some point the United States would no longer be able to prevent Israel from acting as it saw fit in response to the perceived Iranian threat. "

Obama told China: I can't stop Israel strike on Iran indefinitely - Haaretz - Israel News
Even I "could" do that if I were Pres. He "can" he just won't !
__________________
Laws are purchased-Justice is prayed for.
Reply With Quote
  #11 (permalink)  
Old 12-23-2009
Concerned Citizen

 
Member Since: Dec 2009
Location: Arkansas
Posts: 44

   
Re: Obama told China: I can't stop Israel strike on Iran indefinitely

Quote:
Arab states have to give IDF airspace clearance for Iran strike, too.
I guarantee that WHEN Israel gets ready to strike Iran the last thing that they're going to be concerned about is whether or not the arab's GIVE them clearance. These are the same Israeli's that during the first gulf war had IAF F-16I's on the runways, loaded with nuclear ordnance, and told Bush that if 1 more SCUD entered Israeli airspace that Baghdad would become a glowing afterthought on the maps of future history books. Needless to say, no more SCUDS entered Israeli airspace!
__________________
"...But when a long train of abuses and usurpations, pursuing invariably the same object evinces a design to reduce them under absolute despotism, it is their right, it is their duty, to throw off such government, and to provide new guards for their future security."
Reply With Quote
  #12 (permalink)  
Old 12-24-2009
Secretary of Defense
Incrementally from Smiley to Big Bad Bill to NOT SO Sweet William :)

 
Member Since: Sep 2007
Location: south west usa
Posts: 2,674
Blog Entries: 88

United_States     Texas

Re: Obama told China: I can't stop Israel strike on Iran indefinitely

Quote:
Originally Posted by Steerpike View Post
The United States is not "preventing" Israel from acting as it sees fit. Israel, as a sovereign nation, acts as it sees fit just as other sovereign nations do.
For the moment, Israel "sees fit" to not take military action, but that could change, and the United States can't "prevent" that. The most the United States could do is to discourage such behavior, but it can not, in the final analysis, "prevent" it.
You are quite right however what if "in our perceived interests" we indicated we would attack Israel, Drop our grants and giveaways and impose sanctions. That failing politically and with actions by them continuing that would further the possibilities of confllicts using our forces may cause insurgent type attacks against Jews here in the U.S.A. Could be time for the "hobbles"

Horse Hobbles: Safely contain your horse or mule
__________________
Laws are purchased-Justice is prayed for.
Reply With Quote
  #13 (permalink)  
Old 12-25-2009
hairballxavier's Avatar
Vice President
Covert leader of the ... conspiracy

 
Member Since: Feb 2004
Location: The Crossroads ...
Posts: 8,387

    Ohio

Re: Obama told China: I can't stop Israel strike on Iran indefinitely

Quote:
Originally Posted by sami View Post
agree. Arab states have to give IDF airspace clearance for Iran strike, too.
Israel has harpoon missiles capable of carrying a nuclear payload and they also have 3 Dolphin class submarines capable of launching those missiles, 1 of which is thought to patrol the Red Sea and Persian Gulf. So they probably have the capability to make devastating strikes in Iran without flying over the airspace of any Arab countries.
__________________
... ..................
We the People of the United States, in Order to form a more perfect Union, establish Justice, insure domestic Tranquility, provide for the common defence, promote the general Welfare, and secure the Blessings of Liberty to ourselves and our Posterity, do ordain and establish this Constitution for the United States of America.
Reply With Quote
  #14 (permalink)  
Old 12-27-2009
Active Citizen

 
Member Since: Jul 2009
Location: Thailand
Posts: 64

   
Re: Obama told China: I can't stop Israel strike on Iran indefinitely

Quote:
Originally Posted by Burt View Post
I guarantee that WHEN Israel gets ready to strike Iran the last thing that they're going to be concerned about is whether or not the arab's GIVE them clearance. These are the same Israeli's that during the first gulf war had IAF F-16I's on the runways, loaded with nuclear ordnance, and told Bush that if 1 more SCUD entered Israeli airspace that Baghdad would become a glowing afterthought on the maps of future history books. Needless to say, no more SCUDS entered Israeli airspace!
Hello, this never happened!

Quote:
Originally Posted by hairballxavier View Post
Israel has harpoon missiles capable of carrying a nuclear payload and they also have 3 Dolphin class submarines capable of launching those missiles, 1 of which is thought to patrol the Red Sea and Persian Gulf. So they probably have the capability to make devastating strikes in Iran without flying over the airspace of any Arab countries.
The small missiles those things fire would do anything but make adevastating strike on Iran, unless they are armed with nuclear warheads-and israel won't dare make such a strike for fear that Iran would get it's hands on it's own devise, now or in the future, and retaliate.

The idea is that Israel would have to fly F-15s loaded with fuel and bombs over Arab states or Turkey. The turkey route is too long so they would run out of fuel so that leaves attacking over Iraq-which would draw the US into the conflict because the US dominates that airspace and would have had to give them permission to overfly; In that case Iran will strike US bases in Iraq with missiles as part of the retaliation. All that for a strike that probably won't achive much and will likly get UN Inspectors thrown out with the nuclear work going underground. bad option now as in the last 10 years.
Reply With Quote
  #15 (permalink)  
Old 12-27-2009
County Executive
Semitic

 
Member Since: Jun 2009
Location: my house
Posts: 340

Saudi    
Re: Obama told China: I can't stop Israel strike on Iran indefinitely

Quote:
Originally Posted by Burt View Post
I guarantee that WHEN Israel gets ready to strike Iran the last thing that they're going to be concerned about is whether or not the arab's GIVE them clearance. These are the same Israeli's that during the first gulf war had IAF F-16I's on the runways, loaded with nuclear ordnance, and told Bush that if 1 more SCUD entered Israeli airspace that Baghdad would become a glowing afterthought on the maps of future history books. Needless to say, no more SCUDS entered Israeli airspace!
but that would be illegal, and thats a different story.

Quote:
Originally Posted by hairballxavier View Post
Israel has harpoon missiles capable of carrying a nuclear payload and they also have 3 Dolphin class submarines capable of launching those missiles, 1 of which is thought to patrol the Red Sea and Persian Gulf. So they probably have the capability to make devastating strikes in Iran without flying over the airspace of any Arab countries.
Yes. they could nuke Iran instead. if they are planning to send those missiles, then why is the IDF airspace have been training for this strike in Turkey and Egypt? the actuall strike would be through Arab states, if not, why would the IDF airspace train for the iran strike as if they're going through Arab states?
Quote:
The Saudis have tacitly agreed to the Israel air force flying through their airspace on a mission which is supposed to be in the common interests of both Israel and Saudi Arabia,”
Saudis Would Allow Israel to Attack Iran - Defense/Middle East - Israel News - Israel National News
Saudi declined this report, like when they declined many reports before such as the Israel Iraq strike report.
__________________
English is my 3rd language

Last edited by sami; 12-27-2009 at 12:17 PM.
Reply With Quote
Reply

Bookmarks

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are On



All times are GMT -7. The time now is 07:33 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.3
Copyright ©2000 - 2010, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
SEO by vBSEO 3.2.0
Copyright © 2000 - 2009 U.S. Politics Online