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President
This is a long article, and there is a video. I didn't post the complete article due to the length. I think we are radicalizing a lot of kids in this country today, not just those who choose to own to Al Qaeda! What do you think?
(CNN) -- The young al Qaeda fighter must have stood out among the others creeping up a mountain on the Afghanistan-Pakistan border, trying to get a good vantage on a U.S. base.
Though armed with rockets and on the same deadly mission as his comrades, he was an American -- out to kill the soldiers of his own country.
Not long ago, he had been an altar boy, a kid growing up in a middle-class suburb on Long Island, New York, a teenager with a passion for baseball -- and the Mets.
Now he was known by his Muslim name, Ibrahim, or by his fighting name: Bashir al Ameriki, "the American."
It was September 2008, and it had been just a year since Bryant Neal Vinas, then 25, had left the United States in pursuit of a goal that became an obsession: to fight his fellow countrymen in Afghanistan.
Vinas was arrested last year and confessed to assisting al Qaeda in a plan to bomb the Long Island Rail Road. He is one of 17 American citizens and longtime residents of the United States to be implicated in terrorist activity in the last year, a surge in the rate with which such cases have emerged.
The radicalization of an all-American kid - CNN.com
Vice President
What do I think? I think the policies and belligerent actions of GW Bush and his team, including Rumsfeld and Cheney, recruited a lot of enemies for America, including Americans. The in-your-face, bring-it-on mentality of that presidency has reaped predictable results.Originally Posted by Sunshine
"There is no gain in arguing with a poo flinging monkey. While his
gibbering and raucous cries of victory may seem obnoxious in your ears
as you walk away, he will soon be quietly sitting behind his bars again
and licking his own feces off his fingers as you carry on with your day."
Moderator
Do you hold Obama/Biden/Axlerod/Emanuel to the same standard? Did/are they doing the same with their 'I won, get over it' in your face tactics?
Or are conservatives 'fair game'?
Vice President
Did Obama say "Bring it on"? Did Obama actually say 'I won, get over it' ? If so, when and where?
I didn't think so.
Thats what a pissed off bunch of Republicans heard, but their failure to correctly hear others is the main reason they lost the election in the first place.
"There is no gain in arguing with a poo flinging monkey. While his
gibbering and raucous cries of victory may seem obnoxious in your ears
as you walk away, he will soon be quietly sitting behind his bars again
and licking his own feces off his fingers as you carry on with your day."
Vice President
I think that coupled with this kid's attitude are responsible. Reading the whole article, it seemed this guy was intent on Jihad. It did seem, also, that he was always at the right place and at the right time.
But yes, there is a cause for events. Things don't happen in a vacuum. Even intelligence experts agree that some of our actions have not been helpful in curbing recruitment, in fact, increasing it.
What I also got out of this story was the good old fashion police work by the FBI that got this guy apprehended. It didn't take a war, torture, suspension of civil liberties to get this guy and his actionable intelligence. Just police work.
Bravo to the FBI.
Anarchism: From Theory to Practice
By Daniel Guérin
- If you enjoy having weekends off, thank a socialist.
- If you appreciate the eight-hour work day, thank a socialist.
- If you approve of minimum wage, thank a socialist.
Vice President
I hold them to the same standards. Obama's increase in troops and drone attacks are certainly not helpful ... but let's remember that this is all fruit from the poisonous tree.
No war in either Iraq or Afghanistan, and this kid doesn't go to kill Americans.
Anarchism: From Theory to Practice
By Daniel Guérin
- If you enjoy having weekends off, thank a socialist.
- If you appreciate the eight-hour work day, thank a socialist.
- If you approve of minimum wage, thank a socialist.
Administrator
In a nation of over 300 million people, there will always be a handful of people who will side with an enemy. In a conflict like this with AQ, it can come from radicalisation within their own family if already Islamic, or because they're strange ducks like this person who find 'meaning' in becoming a convert to a radical ideology like this. In fact, it's been the nutball converts who've been well overrepresented in such instances of 'homegrown terrorists.' I don't think it suggests anything going wrong in America that is primarily responsible for people like this person, just that there is always something wrong in a few people with screws loose and that exists anywhere, and this person is primarily responsible for his own choices in what he did. He's also fully accountable for them, and the US should treat and handle him accordingly for what he did.
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Administrator
Besides what I said above, I also think the following.
Once again, this whole debate over Miranda warnings and using the criminal process is bunk and counterproductive to effective handling of this fight.
. . .
From Long Island to Lahore: The plot to bomb New York - CNN.comAfter Vinas started cooperating, he provided "extremely helpful information" in targeting al Qaeda operatives in the tribal areas of Pakistan.
"Just by talking about what he saw, telling us what houses and streets operatives were living in, identifying how al Qaeda runs its courier networks, he has provided us priceless information," a senior U.S. counterterrorism official told CNN.
"This was actionable intelligence."
In recent years, the CIA has carried out a covert aerial campaign targeting al Qaeda and the Pakistani Taliban in the Federally Administered Tribal Areas using unmanned drones.
Vinas' arrest coincided with an intensification of the CIA's drone campaign in the tribal areas of Pakistan, strikes that have killed more than a dozen leading al Qaeda operatives in the last two years.
U.S. counterterrorism officials will not comment on whether intelligence from Vinas helped with any specific strike. What officials do acknowledge, however, is that Vinas became a powerful resource in the U.S. war against al Qaeda.
"His intelligence was not just useful in the first few weeks after his capture, but for months afterward," a senior U.S. counterterrorism official told CNN. "Vinas was as valuable as having our own agent penetrate al Qaeda. In many ways, the end result was like undertaking a classic intelligence operation."
. . .
On January 28, 2009, in a closed-door session in federal court in Brooklyn, Vinas pleaded guilty to all charges against him: conspiracy to murder U.S. nationals, conspiracy to provide material support to a foreign terrorist organization and receiving military-type training from a foreign terrorist organization.
Vinas faces a maximum of life in prison but could receive a lower sentence if he continues to cooperate.
Sources told CNN that Vinas has come away from his radical views and is cooperating willingly.
. . .
But, once again, I see the same old homegrown nemesis group involved in assisting this guy in what he did: Revolution Muslim.
The radicalization of an all-American kid - CNN.com. . .
One day the caretaker at the Selden mosque was sitting next to Vinas in the public library and saw that he was staring at his computer, mesmerized by an account of Joseph Cohen, a Jew who converted to Islam.
Known by his Muslim name, Yousef al Khattab, Cohen was then the chief ideologue of the Islamic Thinkers Society, an extremist group supportive of al Qaeda and based in New York, according to counterterrorism officials. Vinas' friend Zarinni was already part of the group. Soon, Vinas too would be moving in its circles, a path that would lead to al Qaeda's camps in the mountains of Pakistan.
. . .
Not everybody welcomed his cooperation with U.S. authorities.
Yousef al Khattab, the chief ideologue of the Islamic Thinkers Society, said he feels betrayed by Vinas.
"For informing on the people that are fighting in Afghanistan," Khattab said, "I call him a coward." . . . .
This shitbag is none other than:
Revolution Muslim - Wikipedia, the free encyclopediaRevolution Muslim
From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
Revolution Muslim is a radical Islamist organization and movement based in New York City that advocates the re-establishment of a structured Islamic state, terrorism both in the United States and in democratic countries around the world, the removal of the current rulers in heavily Muslim populated nations, the destruction of Israel, and an end to what they consider "western imperialism".
. . .
The group of 5-10 members devoted to Abdullah el-Faisal was run by Yousef al-Khattab, born Joseph Cohen, an American Jew who converted to Islam in 2000 . . .
Former members
Yousef al-Khattab, the former Amir of Revolution Muslim, announced on his own website that he had nothing to do with Revolution Muslim's most recent statements or activities, including the organization's statements regarding the staff of South Park. He also clarified his own position by stating, "I do find South Park repulsive, but understand that most Americans view me the same way I view that program. "[14]
. . .
This is all a charade by these particular homegrown terrorist scumbags, including how they pretend to 'separate' rather than franchise out and 'formally deny' what they do, in an attempt to cover up their activities and try to play cutesy games with First Amendment law to avoid accountability for it.
IMO, their shallow First Amendment ruses are a total fail, and what they do is not protected, dangerous and criminal. They ought to get charged, shut down, locked up, and whatever else can be done to them under the law to punish and remove them from society. Why the US government has been so consistently brain-locked on the outer limits of free speech is amazing to me in giving them deference for lines they long ago should be deemed to have crossed.
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President
Whoa! I go to physical therapy, get tortured, come home ready for a pain pill, but instead I have to THINK! LOL
IMNSHO, there will always be kids who get sucked into AQ, for all the same reasons they get sucked into the moonies and other gangs, cults and communes. Regardless of how 'all Americal' a kid is there is a stage in his life described by Maslow in which he/she needs 'love and belongingness.' (His terminology not mine, so don't eat my luch and call me a bleeding heart anythig.) Kids need to belong. And I think a lot of what they belong to will in no small part be dictated by where they are and what is missing in their lives. And contrary to popular belief a lot of 'all American' kids have a lot of holes in their lives. (And Bush didn't put them there, neither did Obama.) That is why they join gangs, cults, and terrorist organizations. It gives some kind of belonging and later meaning to their empty lives.
As to the free speech thing, I have learned my lesson on that count as to talking face to face about it. I had my lunch about eaten one day by a couple of combat veterans who flew into me stating that a person can talk about any goddamned ideology they want as long as the don't act on it. Whew! I came out not entirely unscathed from that one. But, IMO, I have to agree with you, and not necessarily with them, as to the freedom of speech issue. If I claim to be a Baptist and I go around spouting Baptist doctrine, the one would assume I am a Baptist. Or if I am an Atheist and I go around denying God, etc., then I think it is a safe assumption that I am NOT a Baptist! So, if someone claims that the support AQ, and they are involved with a radical terrorist organization, how much longer do we wait until we see action on their part in the direction of terrorism!
I wrote a newspaper article several years ago to help families understand what it takes to get their mentally ill loved on taken to a hospital by the police. Because often times the police would say, 'I can't pick them up until they have DONE something.' That isn't true at all. A person can be picked up and taken to the hospital according to the statute of the state he lives in, generally if he is mentally ill, suicidal, homicidal, psychotic, or unable to meet his survival needs. The person just has to know the statute well enough to articulate it to the police and then they get success 100% of the time. It should be the same with terrorist organizations. The mentally ill person doesn't have freedom of speech if he is threatening to kill self or others. Why should a member of a terrorist organization have freedom of speech in support of an organization that is out to kill American citizens? Perhaps our laws just haven't caught up to that one yet. IMNSHO, they need to!
Speaker of the House
Or, the motivation for killing Americans is that the Quran says to kill the infidel.
Moderator
Here
This... this type of thing right here is why we can not have any meaningful discussion of issues. The complete and total lack of civilized behavior on the part of the left.Democratic and Republican aides confirmed the exchange.
Let me know when you are back on this plane of reality...
Last edited by iamwhatiseem; 05-15-2010 at 04:43 AM.
Vice President
Talk about civility. :rolleyes:
Anarchism: From Theory to Practice
By Daniel Guérin
- If you enjoy having weekends off, thank a socialist.
- If you appreciate the eight-hour work day, thank a socialist.
- If you approve of minimum wage, thank a socialist.
President
Kid join AQ because they are republicans?
Joint Chiefs of Staff Member
Whatever happened to the charge of treason?
here we have an American citizen who joined an enemy and fought against his own country.
Why is that not treason?
Vice President
Apologists for a jihadist? Is that what I read here? So, it is America's fault?
Now, I can agree that our action in Iraq was really stupid. I never understood that invasion. And it was planned at least a year prior to invading. But, doubtful this has generated new terrorists. Unless you were from Iraq and did not like your Nation being occupied. That would be understandable to me. I don't want foreign forces on American soil.
But with that said, I think we were attacked first, by people who did not want the infidels on Arabian soil. And believe it or not, Bush got us off of that soil and put those resources in Iraq. Which may be the REAL reason for the invasion of Iraq.
The "catch" to this mess is because of one thing. OIL. The stuff that we HAVE to have, otherwise the economy and this Nation crashes. We would not give a damn about the Mid East if not for the oil. So, we position forces to protect this life line we find ourselves dependent upon. And by doing so, we raise up the hackles of radical Muslims. Now, this means one thing. This problem of terrorism won't be solved until a hundred years from now, when we are not dependent upon fossil fuels for energy. So, you best learn to live with the fear. Because they are not going away, and we are not gonna give up the oil. This will be the stage we live with in the 21st Century. Blue Doggy
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