Thread: Wikileaks...

Originally Posted by Farouk

So murder of non-Americans is ok by your book.

Your whole point of view is so fucking retarded, I don't know where to begin. Since you will show yourself to be absolutely immune to anything not inherently American anyway, I'll start with the Declaration of Independence:

"We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness."

That is - without doubt - about all men. Not about American citizens, who obviously didn't even exist in an official form until the Declaration of Indepence came into effect.

Nowhere in the constitution of the USA is even the slightest hint that the Bill of Rights affects only American citizens. It generally limits the government in its actions - no matter who it deals with.

And don't give any of that might-makes-right fascist crap. That's the exact opposite of the ideal of rule of law. I have zero tolerance for such stupidity, especially from someone who claims (and therefor fakes) to hold traditional Amercian values in high regard.
"America" in itself is not a value. It's fucking worthless. Upholding its good values alone makes the country good.
Believing in freedom only for Americans is not believing in freedom at all. It's bullshit.

Yeah, whatever. Whine elsewhere.

If a person's actions are going to threaten our people, I want that person killed. His rights mean nothing to me if it means that Americans, or those whose safety is entrusted to Americans, are put in peril.

It's clear that you're unable to digest the responsibilities that go along with the "right" of free speech (assuming they have it), despite them being pointed out to you. Ergo, I honestly couldn't give less of a fuck what your opinion is. It means dick...

Originally Posted by tsquare

There are limits to free speech. Prime among them is the endangerment of others. This is sometimes know by 'you can't yell FIRE! in a crowded theater'

That you don't know this is quite astounding to me. And sad.

What has publishing historical facts to do with shouting "fire!" in a crowded theatre? Nothing.

If there is a legal basis against WikiLeaks, who is stopping anybody to bring the responsible individuals to court? Because that is the way any civilized country must deal with such things.
As it would if I shouted "fire!" in a crowded theatre.

And if America doesn't have jurisdiction, than it fucking hasn't jurisdiction. Tough shit. It's called rule of law. You should know it.

Originally Posted by Steve

It's clear that you're unable to digest the responsibilities that go along with the "right" of free speech (assuming they have it), despite them being pointed out to you. Ergo, I honestly couldn't give less of a fuck what your opinion is. It means dick...

I know about the responsibilities of freedom of speech. Very often I do keep my mouth shut. But certainly not when someone calls for murder as you do.
Is it responsible to advocate murder?

It's pretty unimportant if my opinion means dick, because I want you to justify yours. On the base of facts. What is the (legal) base for your assumption that a human which sports the word "American" as his nationality is more valuable than any other human?

Originally Posted by Farouk

So murder of non-Americans is ok by your book.

Your whole point of view is so fucking retarded, I don't know where to begin. Since you will show yourself to be absolutely immune to anything not inherently American anyway, I'll start with the Declaration of Independence:

"We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness."

That is - without doubt - about all men. Not about American citizens, who obviously didn't even exist in an official form until the Declaration of Indepence came into effect.

Nowhere in the constitution of the USA is even the slightest hint that the Bill of Rights affects only American citizens. It generally limits the government in its actions - no matter who it deals with.

And don't give any of that might-makes-right fascist crap. That's the exact opposite of the ideal of rule of law. I have zero tolerance for such stupidity, especially from someone who claims (and therefor fakes) to hold traditional Amercian values in high regard.
"America" in itself is not a value. It's fucking worthless. Upholding its good values alone makes the country good.
Believing in freedom only for Americans is not believing in freedom at all. It's bullshit.

If you want to talk about the rule of law, what wikileaks has done is espionage and is punishable by lethal injection.

Originally Posted by Farouk

And if America doesn't have jurisdiction, than it fucking hasn't jurisdiction. Tough shit. It's called rule of law. You should know it.

It's call an MP5:



Navy SEALS use 'em.

Wikileaks fucks should get to know them.

The people responsible need to be taken out. If doing that pisses you off, well, all the better...

Originally Posted by Farouk

I know about the responsibilities of freedom of speech.

Clearly, you don't...

Very often I do keep my mouth shut.

Oh, don't tease us...

Is it responsible to advocate murder?

If it keeps Americans from being killed, I'm cool with it...

It's pretty unimportant if my opinion means dick, because I want you to justify yours.

You should probably be made aware that I don't give a fuck what you "want" me to do...

On the base of facts. What is the (legal) base for your assumption that a human which sports the word "American" as his nationality is more valuable than any other human?

You're in Germany. Where American lives are concerned, you, and everyone else who's not an American, take a back seat.

Americans are better than you. Deal with it...

A great example of just why I just love Europe…

Originally Posted by Farouk

So murder of non-Americans is ok by your book.

Your whole point of view is so fucking retarded, I don't know where to begin. Since you will show yourself to be absolutely immune to anything not inherently American anyway, I'll start with the Declaration of Independence:

"We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness."

That is - without doubt - about all men. Not about American citizens, who obviously didn't even exist in an official form until the Declaration of Indepence came into effect.

Nowhere in the constitution of the USA is even the slightest hint that the Bill of Rights affects only American citizens. It generally limits the government in its actions - no matter who it deals with.

And don't give any of that might-makes-right fascist crap. That's the exact opposite of the ideal of rule of law. I have zero tolerance for such stupidity, especially from someone who claims (and therefor fakes) to hold traditional Amercian values in high regard.
"America" in itself is not a value. It's fucking worthless. Upholding its good values alone makes the country good.
Believing in freedom only for Americans is not believing in freedom at all. It's bullshit.

You do realize that the Declaration of Independence, along with our Constitution, along with the rest of our laws stop at our borders, right? If you need to prove the point, try citing the 5th amendment the next time you have a run in with the law there at home. I’m sure someone will get quite a chuckle out of it.

This is an act of war, Casus belli against the United States. As such the normal rule of law does not apply.

As such, any and all means to cause the cessation of the action is both allowed and appropriate. Including and especially killing the bug fuckers.

Originally Posted by Ernie S.

If you want to talk about the rule of law, what wikileaks has done is espionage and is punishable by lethal injection.

I am no expert on US law, but this seems to be the most fitting law I could find:
18 U.S.C. § 793 : US Code - Section 793: Gathering, transmitting or losing defense information

Necessary condition:
"[...]with intent or reason to believe that the
information is to be used to the injury of the United States, or to
the advantage of any foreign nation,[...]"

Punishment:
"Shall be fined under this title or imprisoned not more than ten
years, or both."

Show me a better law!

Originally Posted by Steve

You're in Germany. Where American lives are concerned, you, and everyone else who's not an American, take a back seat.

Americans are better than you. Deal with it...

Nationality is completely irrelevant. And if Americans are better than me, you are not an American, judging by your arguments.

I'll repeat: (a fact, not my opinion!)
you are calling for murder for very specific persons! Don't you have a law against that, like that fire in a theatre thing?

And because I knew you would shit out such answers, I did refer to the declaration of independance and the constitution. I'd like to see you claiming both meaning dick, too. Not that you haven't already in indirect form.

Originally Posted by Farouk

I am no expert on US law, but this seems to be the most fitting law I could find:
18 U.S.C. § 793 : US Code - Section 793: Gathering, transmitting or losing defense information

Necessary condition:
"[...]with intent or reason to believe that the
information is to be used to the injury of the United States, or to
the advantage of any foreign nation,[...]"

Punishment:
"Shall be fined under this title or imprisoned not more than ten
years, or both."

Show me a better law!

You conveniently omitted section (a).

(a) Whoever, with intent or reason to believe that it is to be
used to the injury of the United States or to the advantage of a
foreign nation, communicates, delivers, or transmits, or attempts
to communicate, deliver, or transmit, to any foreign government, or
to any faction or party or military or naval force within a foreign
country, whether recognized or unrecognized by the United States,
or to any representative, officer, agent, employee, subject, or
citizen thereof, either directly or indirectly, any document,
writing, code book, signal book, sketch, photograph, photographic
negative, blueprint, plan, map, model, note, instrument, appliance,
or information relating to the national defense, shall be punished
by death or by imprisonment for any term of years or for life,
except that the sentence of death shall not be imposed unless the
jury or, if there is no jury, the court, further finds that the
offense resulted in the identification by a foreign power (as
defined in section 101(a) of the Foreign Intelligence Surveillance
Act of 1978) of an individual acting as an agent of the United
States and consequently in the death of that individual, or
directly concerned nuclear weaponry, military spacecraft or
satellites, early warning systems, or other means of defense or
retaliation against large-scale attack; war plans; communications
intelligence or cryptographic information; or any other major
weapons system or major element of defense strategy.

I'm all for wikileaks and the work that they do. This work is absolutely necessary.

Andrew

Originally Posted by O'Sullivan Bere

Indeed, Rasmussen put it well as quoted in your linked article:



This isn't appropriate material for the usual Internet wave of voyeuristic indulgences, much of which is legally and/or ethically questionable anyway. It's dangerous and deadly business to do that and it's not material to which they are entitled to possess, never mind distribute and publicise globally. We're not talking about legitimate whistleblowing on illegal conduct, but dumping massive classified documents regarding a UN authorised and international forces war against a global threat, namely AQ and its Taliban ally. Enacting and/or enforcing criminal laws prohibiting and sanctioning such conduct ought to be in order.

Democracy is well served by total transparency of government and military operations, regardless of any legalities.

Andrew

Originally Posted by tsquare

This is an act of war, Casus belli against the United States. As such the normal rule of law does not apply.

Outside of the territory of the USA international law takes over. At least as far as the USA ratified such treaties. And so says your constitution.

WikiLeaks cannot commit an act of war. It's a private organization and and as such it's individuals can only commit ordinary crimes.

Who exactly is about to be killed anyway? Every single WikiLeaks worker? All of workers of the hosting company? Stock holders? Yo momma?

Or what is your case of war against Sweden?