Thread: Wikileaks...

Those of you who wish Wikileaks "dead", remember your feelings when you will lament freedom of information in "non-democratic" countries! As soon as one of the fundamental democratic principles knocked on YOUR door you started baying for blood.

Originally Posted by Andrewl

See, when it is in your interests you seem to be all in favor of releasing secrets. The difference of course is that wikileaks does not seem to be so petty - they are far more interested in the bigger picture.

Andrew

Petty? Maybe not. Smart. Definitely not. Wikileaks is single handedly doing more to damage cooperation between states than any other person/group to date. To do this when the world is already on edge because of North Korea/South Korea makes it look like all he wants is publicity and to cause as much trouble as he can. I think it is criminal and doing nothing to promote anything other than destruction.

Originally Posted by Andrewl

And like i have already explained to you it does not matter - this is made possible by technology, not by any individual. This is not something that can be stopped without extreme limitations put on the use of digital and communications technology - and even then i doubt it could be stopped. The cat is out of the bag.

Andrew

And I guarantee you the next guy would think twice about releasing it if hethought there was a chance that, in the middle of the night, he might just disappear...

Originally Posted by Andrewl

See, when it is in your interests you seem to be all in favor of releasing secrets. The difference of course is that wikileaks does not seem to be so petty - they are far more interested in the bigger picture.

Andrew

The problem is that Wikileaks is incapable of seeing the bigger picture. They see all these classified documents and, 9 times out of 10, do not have the ability to understand what they are looking at. They don't have the training or the experience for that.

No, they are after headlines and some naive belief that what they are doing matters.

Originally Posted by Slon

You're in favor of having our government secretly murdering those who tell the truth for telling the truth, and all that on top of killing foreigners openly during invasions and brutal occupations?

Wow.

I am for getting rid of informants, that seek to harm this Nation of mine. Period. I do not move beyond that, its above my pay grade.

Look, the public cannot and should not always be privy to the TRUTH. And that is a no brainer, and always has been among intelligent and reasonable men. I reckon you don't see a need to keep certain info private? Even in times of war. Or even not in times of war. The stupidity of that is overwhelming. That anyone should remind you of this is ludicrous.

Would the people of the Western countries, including US, supported US war on Iraq if they knew that Iraq does NOT have WMD and it is deffinitely not ready to use it against the West within the 45 minutes as Tony claimed? I don't think so.

Would the people of the world supported US invasion of Afghanistan if they knew that it has nothing to do with 9/11 (and as we know now 9/11 has a HUGE question mark over who masterminded it) and everything to do with US power elites desire to lay their hands on Trans-Afghan pipeline, Afghan's natural resources and their need for Afghanistan's geographical position in the future war with Iran? I don't think so.

All the deaths and destruction is the price people pay for the secret shenanigans of power elites behind the back of the people they use to advance their interests.

Well done Wikileaks! Keep up the good work.

Originally Posted by Blue Doggy

Look, the public cannot and should not always be privy to the TRUTH. And that is a no brainer, and always has been among intelligent and reasonable men. I reckon you don't see a need to keep certain info private? Even in times of war. Or even not in times of war. The stupidity of that is overwhelming. That anyone should remind you of this is ludicrous.

Agreed. The public lacks the training, experience, and the ability to see vast amounts of classified information in the proper context. It is not about what you think you have the right to know, it is about whether you have the need to know.

Originally Posted by Blue Doggy

I am for getting rid of informants, that seek to harm this Nation of mine. .

This "nation of yours" has been harmed beyond repare by your power clans that keep using it to murder, destroy and rob other nations for the sake of their interests, while securing your support with lies and deceit.

Originally Posted by CDavidNeely

Petty? Maybe not. Smart. Definitely not. Wikileaks is single handedly doing more to damage cooperation between states than any other person/group to date. To do this when the world is already on edge because of North Korea/South Korea makes it look like all he wants is publicity and to cause as much trouble as he can. I think it is criminal and doing nothing to promote anything other than destruction.

Except states are not cooperating to further the interests of the people, they are cooperating to further their own narrow political ambitions, to further the interests of corporations, and to continue the hyper-exploitation of the worlds resources for the short term gain of a few.

So what it comes down to for me is that I'm all in favor of damaging cooperation between states as it currently stands, and for forcing transparency on government actions so that the citizenry is informed and can replace current institutions of power with institutions that work towards the interests of the people.

Andrew

Originally Posted by ThorHammer

The problem is that Wikileaks is incapable of seeing the bigger picture. They see all these classified documents and, 9 times out of 10, do not have the ability to understand what they are looking at. They don't have the training or the experience for that.

I don't think they view that as their role though. As far as i can tell they view their role as a group that publishes and it is up to the media and the citizens to digest, analyze, and do with the information what they will.

Everything i have seen so far though does not take much to analyze - i.e., the Saudi King hates Iran and wants the US to attack the "snake".... it does not take an intelligence expert to figure out what is going on there.

No, they are after headlines and some naive belief that what they are doing matters.

I strongly disagree. Their ideology is far more genuine than just the publicity whoring of people like Beck or Palin or even Obama for that matter.

Andrew

Originally Posted by Steve

And I guarantee you the next guy would think twice about releasing it if hethought there was a chance that, in the middle of the night, he might just disappear...

I think that history shows quite clearly that people are willing to die for what they believe in - and it is equally quite clear that threat of punishment by death does not deter people.

Besides, this is a network of people and it is growing and it is very spread out. Assange is just the spokesman - the face of the organization. His death would simply make him a martyr for the cause and it would have no real impact on the organization itself. It might even help them.

Andrew

Originally Posted by Andrewl

See, when it is in your interests you seem to be all in favor of releasing secrets. The difference of course is that wikileaks does not seem to be so petty - they are far more interested in the bigger picture.

Andrew

The point obviously blasted past you. Wikileaks keeps its financing top secret - in other words, they are only interested in being "open" when "it is in (their) interests."

I'm all for matters being confidential and secret where appropriate. I'm criticizing those who love wikileaks but who would be aghast if their doctor, lawyer, employees, etc. leaked information to the public.

I hate people who cannot keep a secret, who haven't learned how to shut up. I'd be a great mafiosa - I can keep a secret.

Originally Posted by leighredf

Wikileaks keeps its financing top secret - in other words, they are only interested in being "open" when "it is in (their) interests."

So, you are very much interested in financial secrets of Wikileaks but who and why took your country to wars in Iraq and Afghanistan; how many lives it already cost, and what other wars are planned for your nation (and others) and for what do people have to die is of no interest to you?

Well... says a lot, really...