Thread: Wikileaks...

Originally Posted by Agentorange

I'm curious, for those of you opposed to what Wikileaks have done. is it that they've released classified information that is the issue, or that they've released information that may result in US casualties. It seems to me that there is two different issues going on there.

This guy is a convicted hacker and an anarchist. He wants to see institutions destroyed, and believes in "100% transparency". The guy is just a nutcase, with an axe to grind.

After all, if he truely believes his own coprolite about "freedom of speech" and "transparency", then why not go after the really oppressive nations? Where are his leaks from Cuba, Venezuela, China, North Korea, Russia, Somalia, and other such nations?

Why, because it is not them he hates. And his quotes sound like he has a few screws loose:

“Our particular view on the mechanism of transparency is to selectively go after material that is concealed. Because organizations that have material and want to conceal it are giving off a signal that they believe there will be reform if that material is released.”

“…we in the West have deluded ourselves into believing that we actually have a truly free press. We don’t. And we can see that in the difference between what Wikileaks does and what the rest of the press does.”

"So secret planning is secret usually for a reason, because if it’s abusive it is opposed." (yes, like that abusive invasion of France in 1944)

“It is impossible to correct abuses unless we know that they’re going on.” (yes, to him every secret is an abuse, and he reserves the right to himself to determine right and wrong)

"Censorship also is not only a mechanism that is employed by the state it is something that can be hijacked by wealthy plutocrats, by big companies to use the coercive mechanisms of the state through the judicial system -through unequal access to the judicial system- through patronage networks have material removed permanently from the historical record.” (Plutocrats, I thought that saying went out in the 1970's)

“(about the UK) Is that really a liberal democracy, where the press has secret gag orders?” (yes, like that awful gag order back in 1944, how dare we not have a Mr. Assange back then to give Mr. Hitler transparency in what we were doing)

“…in fact the exchange rates of Western countries are pumped up by the looting and thievery from the developing world.” (and this is proved by your leaks how exactly?)

“And while some people have to be public, what we really encourage is for other people to not be martyrs but to give us material. Keep your job, sit down and relax, let us do the work. We’ll protect you as best we can and we have never lost anyone so far.” (Yea, tell that to PFC Manning)

“In all these cases there’s complex layers as to why people do things. Including attacks on us which seem like they might backfire but actually are in deeper analysis are a forced move by intelligence agencies or corporations or groups of lawyers that have attempted to sue us in different jurisdictions.” (all the attacks against us are CIA plots)

"Sunshine Press is a network of journalists, activists, lawyers, and some individual donors who made some money in the tech revolution. And Wikileaks is the platform that we use to try and realise our ideal.” (because our ideal is what really matters)

“The West through it’s own corruption supports and extends corruption in developing countries.” (I think Stalin once said something like that)

“What does censorship reveal? It reveals fear.” (Japanese adult movies censor the genitals, so are Japanese afraid of genitals?)

I keep having to wonder, is he Julian Assange, or does he think he is really Thomas Gabriel?

Originally Posted by Mushroom

This guy is a convicted hacker and an anarchist. He wants to see institutions destroyed, and believes in "100% transparency". The guy is just a nutcase, with an axe to grind........

ENORMOUS SNIP

........I keep having to wonder, is he Julian Assange, or does he think he is really Thomas Gabriel?

So.. a whole load of quotes with from Assange comments by yourself. But as far as I can see no answer to the questions you quoted from me..odd.

Originally Posted by Agentorange

If Wikileaks had confined themselves to that sort of disclosure, things that might be considered whistle blowing would your feelings be any different ?

Absolutely. If Wikileaks or any other 'whistleblower' organization confined themselves to reporting abuses that did not provide military or diplomatic secrets, I would applaud them. Once they name a single operative who isn't publicly known as such or reveal any details of active diplomatic negotiations that are being kept secret, they've stepped into the realm of espionage and should be treated accordingly.

I'll point out that I'm not particularly opposed to espionage, but every nation it's committed against has a right to pursue those responsible for whatever punishment they deem fit.

Originally Posted by Porras

Absolutely. If Wikileaks or any other 'whistleblower' organization confined themselves to reporting abuses that did not provide military or diplomatic secrets, I would applaud them. Once they name a single operative who isn't publicly known as such or reveal any details of active diplomatic negotiations that are being kept secret, they've stepped into the realm of espionage and should be treated accordingly.

I'll point out that I'm not particularly opposed to espionage, but every nation it's committed against has a right to pursue those responsible for whatever punishment they deem fit.

Ok, with that in mind if I was German and I've just found out via Wikileaks that it turns out one of my top officials has been feeding confidential information and reports to America ( as indeed was the case ) are Wikileaks heroes or Villains ?

For Andrew,who called my comments about wikileaks and their new business target "supposition":

Video - Breaking News Videos from CNN.com

Time for Mr. Assange to answer some questions about whether he or any of his associates have financial holdings that will benefit from Bank of America's stock losing value. If so, he may have committed serious criminal acts.

Matt

Originally Posted by MattInFla

Time for Mr. Assange to answer some questions about whether he or any of his associates have financial holdings that will benefit from

Matt

1. Why are not calling on US government to either deny or take responsibility for all it's shenanigans revealed by Wiki before you proceed with character assasination of Mr. Assange?

2. Do you really believe character assasination of Mr. Assange on behalf of US power clans will add to their credibility?

I don't buy Mr. Assange's assertion that he is doing this purely for altruistic motivations. He strikes me as a narcissist, and I believe that his Wikileaks efforts are only to continue to pump up his own self image.

So I believe that the question of Mr. Assange's possible financial gains based on the information he's leaking are due diligence and legitimate in nature.

Originally Posted by MattInFla

For Andrew,who called my comments about wikileaks and their new business target "supposition":

Video - Breaking News Videos from CNN.com

Time for Mr. Assange to answer some questions about whether he or any of his associates have financial holdings that will benefit from Bank of America's stock losing value. If so, he may have committed serious criminal acts.

Matt

I would point out that the post above does not make any accusations, and as such, I believe that it is a reasonable question to ask and that it is asked in a reasonable manner.

Typical that the focus of the discussion here lies on Assange while the information in the cables is much more interesting.


Btw, according to Assange's lawyer, only 0,2 percent of the info was released. They're keeping the rest as insurance.

Originally Posted by Mister T.

Typical that the focus of the discussion here lies on Assange while the information in the cables is much more interesting.


Btw, according to Assange's lawyer, only 0,2 percent of the info was released. They're keeping the rest as insurance.

This sounds like some sort of extortion to me. Or is this some sort of typical lawyer talk?

Originally Posted by eohrnberger

This sounds like some sort of extortion to me. Or is this some sort of typical lawyer talk?

Survival.

Now, the big and powerful need to be blowing bits of dust off him to make sure nothing will happen to the dude.

Originally Posted by Ernie S.

How does Assange deserve the protections of thee US Constitution?
And what the fuck does this have to do with anyone named Bush?
You're coming unhinged, Pram.

Mmm.

Well the great GOP deity, Reagan, is dead. So, the Bush Empire seems to be the GOP favorite, so I figured that's what you'd want - another Bush child in the office.


And anyone who is going to be subject to the actions of the US government deserves the protections of the US Constitution.

Originally Posted by MattInFla

For Andrew,who called my comments about wikileaks and their new business target "supposition":

Video - Breaking News Videos from CNN.com

Time for Mr. Assange to answer some questions about whether he or any of his associates have financial holdings that will benefit from Bank of America's stock losing value. If so, he may have committed serious criminal acts.

Matt

I'm curious how you think that video goes beyond the random baseless speculation that you engaged in earlier?

The gentleman in that interview must have repeated the words "We don't know..." at least a dozen times regarding Wikileaks donors. He certainly did not provide any evidence, nor did he claim to have any.

What I did enjoy was the deep sense of nervousness wikileaks has created in the market. Its a wonderful thing.

Andrew

Originally Posted by Andrewl

I'm curious how you think that video goes beyond the random baseless speculation that you engaged in earlier?

The gentleman in that interview must have repeated the words "We don't know..." at least a dozen times regarding Wikileaks donors. He certainly did not provide any evidence, nor did he claim to have any.

What I did enjoy was the deep sense of nervousness wikileaks has created in the market. Its a wonderful thing.

Andrew

It's not that wonderful for people whose pension funds hold bank stock, not that you'd care.....

Assange is a total hypocrite for demanding 100% transparency from everyone but himself - and those who support him are just as intellectually FUBAR.

Matt