Thread: Wikileaks...

Originally Posted by MattInFla

Yeah, criminal activity is always hysterical.

I hardly call it criminal. At most, it's civil disobedience but that's as far I'd go with it.

Originally Posted by Mister T.

Visa.com is down too.
Wondering if they are as stupid as MasterCard.

Stupid in that they're supporting the wrong side.

Originally Posted by RRAHH

I hardly call it criminal. At most, it's civil disobedience but that's as far I'd go with it.



Stupid in that they're supporting the wrong side.

Seems, there are legal procedures against Visa and probably soon too against Master-Card.

Paypal has given in already and will transfer the frozen money.

Originally Posted by Voland

Well, the "leak" in the german governement was the foreign ministers office chief, and I would be seriously surprised if the governements claims that he only passed on party interna to the Americans over a beer would turn out to be true, especially since he was apparently passing on info since 2007 and the Wikileaks mention him delivering documents.
That the governement and especially minister Westerwelle ( whom the Americans labeled as incompetent and neurotic which is indeed common knowledge) would like to keep things under the carpet is obvious.
There are many more cables to come, we´ll see..........

Check again please.
The guy was office chief of the FDP - Chief, NOT the foreign Sec.
Not in Government, but in Party Service.
He passed on some interna of the coalition contract, which was mainly Party related. He did not pass on any official document.

He said so himself and I believe him.
He´s sometimes rash in voicing himself, but generally an integer person.

And he definitely did not know, that his private talks would be used in the way they were.
He definitely seems to be too naive for politics.

RB btw did not want him in the delegation, he called him "zu blöd", but GW insisted on his participation.

My own two cents:
Its perfectly possible that Assange did the things he is accused of, maybe its just some revenge of some pissed of women though. I don't think its fabricated by some intelligence. I think however that it is not unlikely though is that this is pushed by intelligence/diplomacy. It seems perfectly possible that Assange will be kept in custody for these sexual assault issues but the US being busily constructing some case against him based on whatever they can come up with legally and then demand the extradition of him (as he is already in custody anyway) from either the UK or Sweden.

I can't really believe that this concentration of action against Wikileaks with Visa, Mastercard and paypal at the same time freezing money which is belongs to Wikileaks. (Anyone knows how legal this is in first place?) is just random.

I do not support the cyber attacks against these companies but I can understand people who support wikileaks.

Interesting points made in the Guardian:

Here is Hillary Clinton speaking in January:

"Information has never been so free," declared Clinton. "Even in authoritarian countries, information networks are helping people discover new facts and making governments more accountable."

I guess she never really meant it.

Live with the WikiLeakable world or shut down the net. It's your choice | John Naughton | Comment is free | The Guardian

Andrew

Originally Posted by MattInFla

Would it be just as hilarious if MasterCard "leaked" all of the customer information pertaining to WikiLeaks? Names and addresses of contacts, what banks they use, etc?

They´d be a business without customers in a couple of days if they did.

What makes me wonder is, that you call Wikileaks actions illegal (I call them stupid) which isn´t proven and hard to determine given the location and citizenship of their staff and servers.
Yet you seem to speculate on reactions of a third party, which would definitely be of criminal nature and you even seem to delight on that thought.

Disappoints me a little.

Originally Posted by stillalive

Seems, there are legal procedures against Visa and probably soon too against Master-Card.

Paypal has given in already and will transfer the frozen money.

I wonder what the fallout will be when Anonymous and the other hack-tivist realize the power to manipulate financial institutes that they wield.

Originally Posted by Slartibartfas

My own two cents:
Its perfectly possible that Assange did the things he is accused of, maybe its just some revenge of some pissed of women though. I don't think its fabricated by some intelligence. I think however that it is not unlikely though is that this is pushed by intelligence/diplomacy. It seems perfectly possible that Assange will be kept in custody for these sexual assault issues but the US being busily constructing some case against him based on whatever they can come up with legally and then demand the extradition of him (as he is already in custody anyway) from either the UK or Sweden.

I can't really believe that this concentration of action against Wikileaks with Visa, Mastercard and paypal at the same time freezing money which is belongs to Wikileaks. (Anyone knows how legal this is in first place?) is just random.

I do not support the cyber attacks against these companies but I can understand people who support wikileaks.

From what I gather, none of the womwen went to the police, the cops went to them instead. This again implies, that they already had an eye on Assange and were tailing him.
This happened after the first notes (Afghanistan) were published.
None of the women filed a suit or a complaint. The state attorney did that, and without definite proof.

Had (US)intelligence had a hand in that, the women would definitely have filed suit.

Given Swedens position as a US lap dog, a call from the Departement of State could have been sufficient to get things rolling.

Originally Posted by CDavidNeely

I wonder what the fallout will be when Anonymous and the other hack-tivist realize the power to manipulate financial institutes that they wield.

Well, there´s a Hacker codex.
And funny enough, they all stick to it.

More reliable and trustworthy than most Governments.

Edit

Here´s the latest list on corruption

http://www.transparency.org/policy_r...i/2010/results

Makes me cringe when I read up the top 30 liliy white lambs.
The sums these holier than thou countries paid in bribes is more than five times the amount the rest squandered.

Originally Posted by stillalive

They´d be a business without customers in a couple of days if they did.

What makes me wonder is, that you call Wikileaks actions illegal (I call them stupid) which isn´t proven and hard to determine given the location and citizenship of their staff and servers.
Yet you seem to speculate on reactions of a third party, which would definitely be of criminal nature and you even seem to delight on that thought.

Disappoints me a little.

Where did I call WikiLeals' actions illegal? I said that when they start releasing documents from publicly held corporations, there was a significant potential for criminal exploitation if the resulting market reaction.

Matt

Originally Posted by MattInFla

Where did I call WikiLeals' actions illegal? I said that when they start releasing documents from publicly held corporations, there was a significant potential for criminal exploitation if the resulting market reaction.

Matt

Don´t get me wrong Matt, It is right that you did not write the word illegal, but IMHO you seem to imply it in every second post.
Be that as it may, you are right in that the release of the classified notes unedited is an attempt at blackmail.

However, Assange is not, as he himself believes, the undisputed ruler of Wikileaks.
Plenty of people there do not condone the way he acts and reacts.
They also separate quite clearly the publishing of the material available from the private escapades of Assange.

And they clearly stated, that the "security" will only be released if Assange is UNLAWFULLY deported to the USA and put on trial there.

I have reason to doubt, that the file in question will be released unedited however.
It disappeared from the download for four days and when it reappeared, the file was 18 MB smaller than before.

So, someone might well have edited it already, more than likely without knowledge and consent of Assange.

I also assume, that Assange did not carry the password around in his Wallet, when he went to give himself up.So that PW might as well have been altered to prevent the original file from being opened.

To come to an end, it would be best for Wikileaks IMO if Assange would just leave WL to start a new life as a sheep shearer in New Zealand.
Or help penguins in the Antarctic to raise their young.

Originally Posted by stillalive

Well, there´s a Hacker codex.
And funny enough, they all stick to it.

More reliable and trustworthy than most Governments.

Hacker Codex which all hackers follow? Where do you get that idea? I work in the data industry and I know it is not true.

Originally Posted by RRAHH

I hardly call it criminal. At most, it's civil disobedience but that's as far I'd go with it.



Stupid in that they're supporting the wrong side.

On NPR today someone compared the activities to the civil rights movement of the 60's. The gentlemen on the show gave a very good answer. The difference is those involved in the civil rights movement didn't hide behind anonymity but were proud to stand up for what they believed in instead of hiding behind some amorphous organization and pretending to be heroes. People who take down websites are criminals and the very reason the word hacker has such a negative connotation today.