Thread: If we just stepped back, rasdical Islam would destroy itself

Originally Posted by Sluggo

Not quite...

If we just stepped back, radical Islam would continue to do as it does. Concentrate what wealth it can to continue to attempt rule over a society though religious tyranny, oppression and fear, and selective loss of life. Radical Islam will continue to recruit based on fear and turn it into anger. And that concept of passing recruitment from fear and anger down is multigenerational. Peace with Islam does not equate to a break in the passing down of radical Islam. One could argue well that all monotheistic religions have been in conflict with one another to some degree since inception of the concept of one God.

The problem is Islam has been around long enough to support the notion that they more or less kill just enough of themselves to keep the others in line, radical or not. This is true of not only the single family unit within those that practice Islam but also all the way up to governmental dominance over a nation. Same concept, same methods. Which is really how most oppression works anyway, on any level. Especially when you tack in gender discrimination, and to some degree age discrimination, baked into a religion.

When it comes to enemies it gets even worse as it is more difficult to fight an emeny that goes into the fight willing to kill himself (or a designate) to take you (and whoever else happens to be near) with him. The only real way to destroy radical Islam is to inflict upon it what it inflicts upon everyone else, oppression and fear through violence. Radical Islam does not care about peace. Radical Islam does not have an interest in peaceful coexistence. One thing to remember about organized religion in just about any form, they are not to thrilled with competition or question.

And another thing to remember about the organized religions, the religions of the BOOK, is that two of them, christianity and judaism evolved out of what Islam is still in. The question if why islam has not evolved out of it. What is it about the islamic cultures that refuse to evolve out? It has been a very long time since christians or jews have waged war, due to their religion. Islam is an anchronism, a backward religion that has become a greater danger as it got older.

Originally Posted by Blue Doggy

And another thing to remember about the organized religions, the religions of the BOOK, is that two of them, christianity and judaism evolved out of what Islam is still in. The question if why islam has not evolved out of it. What is it about the islamic cultures that refuse to evolve out? It has been a very long time since christians or jews have waged war, due to their religion. Islam is an anchronism, a backward religion that has become a greater danger as it got older.

Christianity and Judaism may have evolved when compared to Islam, but that is about it. All of them are still reliant upon using of various methods to concentrate wealth for themselves as practice, infliction to various degrees of fear to keep members in the pews by the promise of afterlife benefits and avoidance afterlife punishments from judgement, and of course influence governments and law to dictate societal concerns for not just their own members but anyone else they can reach. What is outdated is the concept of God creating the imperfections of man then punishing them for his mistakes (here or otherwise.) What is outdated is ignoring science and humanity to appease organized religion's management and their self serving place in governmental societal control. It may have "been a very long time since christians or jews have waged war, due to their religion" but I would argue that they still took a back seat drivers position to government interest ensuring conflict over peace well into the 20th century. Perhaps even to present.

Originally Posted by Blue Doggy

And another thing to remember about the organized religions, the religions of the BOOK, is that two of them, christianity and judaism evolved out of what Islam is still in. The question if why islam has not evolved out of it. What is it about the islamic cultures that refuse to evolve out? It has been a very long time since christians or jews have waged war, due to their religion. Islam is an anchronism, a backward religion that has become a greater danger as it got older.

What you have posted here is anthropological bunk and was discredited back in the early 20th century. Cultural evolution (to include religious evolution) is not linear. It doesn't follow a set path, where first X happens, which must then be followed by Y and Z.

Originally Posted by Blue Doggy

And another thing to remember about the organized religions, the religions of the BOOK, is that two of them, christianity and judaism evolved out of what Islam is still in. The question if why islam has not evolved out of it. What is it about the islamic cultures that refuse to evolve out? It has been a very long time since christians or jews have waged war, due to their religion. Islam is an anchronism, a backward religion that has become a greater danger as it got older.

Islam is 700 years younger than Christianity and (depending on where you choose to start counting) thousands of years younger than Judaism. Islam is nowhere near as destructive as Christianity was at its worst. The problem, however, is that today's weaponry has the potential to wreak tremendous havoc. Chemical, biological or nuclear devices in the hands of these maniacs would definitely be problematic.

Originally Posted by Sluggo

Christianity and Judaism may have evolved when compared to Islam, but that is about it. All of them are still reliant upon using of various methods to concentrate wealth for themselves as practice, infliction to various degrees of fear to keep members in the pews by the promise of afterlife benefits and avoidance afterlife punishments from judgement, and of course influence governments and law to dictate societal concerns for not just their own members but anyone else they can reach. What is outdated is the concept of God creating the imperfections of man then punishing them for his mistakes (here or otherwise.) What is outdated is ignoring science and humanity to appease organized religion's management and their self serving place in governmental societal control. It may have "been a very long time since christians or jews have waged war, due to their religion" but I would argue that they still took a back seat drivers position to government interest ensuring conflict over peace well into the 20th century. Perhaps even to present.

Not to get too technical, but Judaism tends not to focus on the afterlife and most Jews do not believe in inflicting their religious beliefs on others. Even in Israel, where the ultra-Orthodox hold disproportionate influence (due to the peculiarities of their parliamentary system) most of the country is secular. Yes, in Jerusalem, virtually everything closes down on Friday nights, but in Tel Aviv, you can ring in the Sabbath with a bacon cheese burger, if you so choose.

Originally Posted by MeadHallPirate

ahoy TomBlaze,

good to see ye, me friend.

i think if Israel wanted to be "off of their leash", they'd be off it, matey. i actually think ye have the whole dog-leash-master dynamic backwards, to a degree.

i think that Israel far prefers to hold our leash and sorta direct our military whar they feel it would be most beneficial to'm.

the current situation be a win/win fer just about everyone involved.

Israel has our complete military backin'.
Israel also has tons 'o US taxdollars comin' in the form 'o military "aid"...in 2012 it'll work out to around 8.2 million dollars. per day.
Israel has huge, huge aid in the form 'o our secret police, the CIA and our vast intellegence network to help'm.

i think Israel likes things just the way they are, TomBlaze. i hope yer tooth is feelin' better too, mate.

- MeadHallPirate

I don't know why you, or many others are concerned about Israel getting aid from us. There are tons of countries that we give aid to. It's nothing special. I would prefer no one got anything, though.

Originally Posted by Sluggo

Christianity and Judaism may have evolved when compared to Islam, but that is about it. All of them are still reliant upon using of various methods to concentrate wealth for themselves as practice, infliction to various degrees of fear to keep members in the pews by the promise of afterlife benefits and avoidance afterlife punishments from judgement, and of course influence governments and law to dictate societal concerns for not just their own members but anyone else they can reach. What is outdated is the concept of God creating the imperfections of man then punishing them for his mistakes (here or otherwise.) What is outdated is ignoring science and humanity to appease organized religion's management and their self serving place in governmental societal control. It may have "been a very long time since christians or jews have waged war, due to their religion" but I would argue that they still took a back seat drivers position to government interest ensuring conflict over peace well into the 20th century. Perhaps even to present.

Oh...and churches are also known to be one of the biggest contributors of voluntary contributions of time and money in our society. Damn those evil churches!!!

Originally Posted by Blue Doggy

And another thing to remember about the organized religions, the religions of the BOOK, is that two of them, christianity and judaism evolved out of what Islam is still in. The question if why islam has not evolved out of it. What is it about the islamic cultures that refuse to evolve out? It has been a very long time since christians or jews have waged war, due to their religion. Islam is an anchronism, a backward religion that has become a greater danger as it got older.

A war commanded by God is one thing, a war to collect taxes is another.

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Originally Posted by AdamKadmon

Islam is 700 years younger than Christianity and (depending on where you choose to start counting) thousands of years younger than Judaism. Islam is nowhere near as destructive as Christianity was at its worst. The problem, however, is that today's weaponry has the potential to wreak tremendous havoc. Chemical, biological or nuclear devices in the hands of these maniacs would definitely be problematic.

Were not the Crusades a reaction to Islam's blood bath across the Asian and European landscape?

Originally Posted by AdamKadmon

Islam is 700 years younger than Christianity and (depending on where you choose to start counting) thousands of years younger than Judaism. Islam is nowhere near as destructive as Christianity was at its worst. The problem, however, is that today's weaponry has the potential to wreak tremendous havoc. Chemical, biological or nuclear devices in the hands of these maniacs would definitely be problematic.

Really? Christianity is worse than anything else? During the period of time where you consider Christianity at it worse it wasn't really that different than many other parts of the world. You'll also find that those times actually were driven by the secular heads of state (eg. Spanish Inquisition).

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Originally Posted by USCitizen

Were not the Crusades a reaction to Islam's blood bath across the Asian and European landscape?

No man...it was unprovoked because everyone was singing around campfires at that time.

Originally Posted by fishjoel

Really? Christianity is worse than anything else? During the period of time where you consider Christianity at it worse it wasn't really that different than many other parts of the world. You'll also find that those times actually were driven by the secular heads of state (eg. Spanish Inquisition).

I didn't say that Christianity is "worse than anything else." I said that in its history it has shed more blood than Islam or Judaism. At least so far.

Originally Posted by AdamKadmon

I didn't say that Christianity is "worse than anything else." I said that in its history it has shed more blood than Islam or Judaism. At least so far.

How does one prove such statement?
I mean, killing one fat person might equal killing 3 or 4 skinny people.

Originally Posted by USCitizen

Were not the Crusades a reaction to Islam's blood bath across the Asian and European landscape?

There were numerous justifications for the Crusades agains the Muslims.

Of course, the Crusaders also persecuted and massacred Jews. Not sure what the justification for that was. Habit, I suppose.

Originally Posted by AdamKadmon

There were numerous justifications for the Crusades agains the Muslims.

Of course, the Crusaders also persecuted and massacred Jews. Not sure what the justification for that was. Habit, I suppose.

What do you expect from unemployed drunken Knights of the Round Table?
It wasn't like Richard Gere was there with them.