First for everything, though i doubt actual communist Soviets would think i'm like them!

I'm not arguing it from a social engineering point either, i'm just saying that if you think that the government doesn't have the right to regulate it then don't expect tax breaks for being married or expect to viewed as one entity with your wife/husband. You can't have it both ways. unless you believe the government should be handing out tax breaks to everyone, but in your case i guess its applicable seeing as you're not against the tax cuts.

Okay look let me explain the same thing from a different angle. Back in the day (however many thousands of years ago) when marriage was established, maybe around biblical times, let's say for the sake of argument it was established so that man and woman can marry, and for that reason. Now on that basis man and woman and every person who wants to has the equal protection/equal rights they want because man can marry woman. If you want folk to marry you have to follow those laws unless you actually change them, which you guys just can't do. This rulling is gonna be appealed and the Iowa appeals courts are gonna overturn it for sure. Unless you guys wanna try legislating something completely new from scratch which is your equivelant to marriage then you're gonna lose everytime on this issue.

I never knew it was a requirement for a woman to change her name in order for her marriage to be valid. When I got married back in 1995, the ONLY document I changed my last name on was my drivers license. I NEVER EVER changed my social security card and I signed most things with both my maiden and married names. I have a feeling that women dropping or keeping their maiden names and/or hyphenating names has nothing to do with gay marriage and has everything to do with women's rights.

BTW, if I ever got married again, I'm not so sure I would take that guy's name either. I can't see any reason why it would be necessary. I guess it would be something to talk about when and if I ever cross that bridge.

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I never said it was a valid requirement, i said that they couldn't do it (as best i knew) with just a civil union, with a marriage license i think its enough. With a civil union if you wanna change your name i think you have to go through an official proccess with a judge and fill in court. Anyway i'm not 100% sure, its just something i heard, which hopefully i interpreted correctly.

Hmm can you just leave it as be or aren't you obligated and required to notify them of any changes to circumstances like change of names or address or births or deaths or whatever? Which name did you carry just in everyday life, when say signing a document or introducing yourself or whatever?

I agree, i think i worded what i wrote badly. What i meant was the scenario and relevant context (civil union (hetro) partnerships with women changing their names) was never gonna become an issue as all society ever discusses civil unions is whether it should be applied to gays or not; whether they are worthy of civil unions when not entitled to marriage. Not neccessarily my views, just the way it is discussed in society.

Well usually people just do it for the sake of tradition and when people get married they like their kids to carry the father's name to carry on the family line.

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Frankly, I don't care what the word signified in the past, what it means today is all that matters. I don't think we should toss the meaning aside for PC reasons.

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I can picture in my mind a world without war, a world without hate. And I can picture us attacking that world, because they'd never expect it.

Yes, but we're more than a year ahead of the election. There's no way to really know.

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Whan they come, Ah sall staun mah grun
Staun mah grun, an be na afraid.
Thochts ae hame tak awa mah fear
Sweat an bluid hide mah veil o tears.

Why does either side focus on an issue that leads to broken promises? Look at the current House and Senate .. making promises that would turn the United States into a new utopia; yet here we are, nearly a year later, unchanged.

It's interesting to see the strategy that each party will use .. although it will be the same thing .. "vote for me to have a new America"

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Last time it was an issue, te Democrats got hammerred. I'm hoping that it is for the same reason. While I may not be particularly happy with the current crop of Republicans, I sure as Hell don't want Pelosi and Reid in charge any longer than absolutely necessary.

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"Human law must rest its authority ultimately upon the authority of that law which is Divine. . . . Far from being rivals or enemies, religion and law are twin sisters, friends, and mutual assistants.
" - James Wilson, U. S. Supreme Court Justice and Signer of the Declaration of Independence and the Constitution

"PC" is exactly what you are promoting. There is nothing special about the term "marriage" that requires it be protected. The idea that all the rights of marriage should be granted to everyone is fine. But your insistence that the word itself be reserved for heterosexuals is the epitome of appearance being more important than substance. I really can't understand why anyone would spend time promoting such a meaningless gesture.

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I think it's pretty well established that marriage is about property and inheritance, not propriety.

no but its in the debate....why change it? what real, purpose would it serve(?), gay friends I speak to, a clear majority agree that its a feeling of normalcy, and the benefits assigned to ‘marriage” that they seek..and most agree the feeling of normalcy is something thy have to attain on there won to an extent, and they also understand fully how people that don’t agree with gay marriage feel the drive to change it is some pushing action that regards benefits etc. are already out there and are proliferating down now in a trickle down affect...they also agree that there is an extremism among some of the more popular gay institutions and spokespersons who feel they must have it now, instead of allowing the trickle down tolerance that is sure to happen, add in the institutional educational introductions as well, people attain change through slow but steady application of logic....the harder you push the more dug in some will be.....regards benefits, I have zero issue with civil unions where n gay persons have a what is in effect a marriage contract tere by gaining the ability to make decision for each other, at work and recognition regard state and county agencies...and at the end, where their tolerance for us and our feelings and outlook....?

Labeling people homophobes because they don’t agree helps them not a wit and in fact is just another side of the old smear’em if you cannot convince them game....against illegal immigration ? You’re racist..thats hollow and a dishonest outlook regards the overall debate...

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"The captain has turned off the `No Dubbing' sign. You are free to speak any language you choose."

I think procreation, the commitment to raising family together etc. is a huge part of it as well, inheritance and property rights, an be attained by civil union process'.

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"The captain has turned off the `No Dubbing' sign. You are free to speak any language you choose."

Who gets married because they want to have kids? You don't actually have to be married or legally bound to someone to have a kid and raise it together. Unmarried people are having and raising kids everyday. You do have to have some kind of legal kinship to inherit something, unless otherwise stipulated in a will.

I'll admit, I'm jaded...I think people get married for more screwed up reasons then good reasons.

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