Originally Posted by goober

I think Bush is the perfect bookend for the Clinton years, that 8 year glowing beacon of Peace and Prosperity, sandwiched between the disasters of the Bush Presidencies.
He has shown that tax cuts raise debt, not revenue, that war leads to death and violence, not peace.
And he has taken a super power, and lead it to defeat against the weakest forces on the planet.

The Worst President in History has shown that Tax cuts and war are two things that every future president should try to steer clear of, at least we owe him that. Now let's turn him over to the people of Falujah where he can be tried as a war criminal.

Originally Posted by Jason Marcel

I don't think there's been a worse two-term President than this one. The debt has gone through the roof, Americans still pay more in deductibles and premiums for their health care than say Canadians do in taxes, Bush has been singlehandedly responsible for defying the no nation building stance of the Republican Party, and also has abandoned that libertarian streak in conservatives to stay out of people's lives with the illegal wiretapping. He's torn up invaluable treaties and policies ranging from the ABM treaty with Russia, to the agreement with North Korea, and Kyoto. Money has been delivered wholesale from poor and middle class Americans to the wealthiest, while rich companies still collect state welfare. The policy on Cuba is outdated and stupid. The conservative stance on why "socialized" medicine is wrong doesn't make any sense, logically or business wise, unless you see that the bottom line is to make sure that wealthy donors get their money's worth.

I don't think America has been in a worse state in my life-I'm 31. You're stuck in a shamefully tragic situation in Iraq with some people using faith and wishful thinking and sentimentality over logic and reason and facts. Bush fumbled the ball in the Israeli/Palestinian issue by not doing anything when he immediately came to power. Didn't continue Clinton's good work, simply eschewed it. Now the Middle East is all fired up, you've lost the goodwill of your closest allies after receiving the most sympathy ever both after 9/11 and Katrina. Don't even get me started on Bush's fumbling of Katrina. Yes, it took a complete breakdown for all the shit that happened there, but when you have an involved and engaged president like Clinton, government can do good work. Bush's philosophy is that government sucks, so he got elected and has proved that theory over and over again.

At first I was fooled and thought that Bush would cruise as president. Not rock the boat, just as he promised, come up the middle on most issues, bring people together like in Texas. Instead, he got elected and has lead like a dictator or a king. He is stubborn in a really special kind of retarded way where he seems to feel that denial is a moral value. He's proud of his stubbornness; he mistakes it for leadership. Some have felt Bush is the devil, an evil man with evil friends. But that's not the case. They're simply businessmen who only know about making huge profits. I'm sure Bush "cares" about people, it's just that he doesn't seem to know that actions speak louder than words. Now the country is stuck in a mess of a war that most of it's citizens don't even really comprehend. Many Americans are so lulled and lazy that they probably can't even find Iraq on a map. That's the strange thing with American right now; the country is supposed to be at war, but everybody is watching tv and getting fat, while many of the rest don't understand the complexities of the nation they've invaded. Nearly half of Americans still believe that Saddam was responsible for 9/11, and that says something about the psyche of the country, how Americans simply just believe whatever is forcefed to them. Part of that is the citizenry, part of it their leaders, for lulling them in to sleepytime instead of challenging them.

Originally Posted by quacker76

Oh, and if you think FEMA would have worked better under Clinton you don't know how the federal government works.

Originally Posted by quacker76

I could write a book about how incredibly wrong you are, but lets start with the facts. No one ever said Saddam was responsible for 911.

Originally Posted by quacker76

The economy is stronger and more recession-proof than it ever has been.

Originally Posted by quacker76

He got elected by a democratic system called the electoral college- maybe you've heard of it.

Originally Posted by quacker76

Perhaps you can tell us about some of the people you know or have heard of whose lives have been affected by wiretapping?

Originally Posted by quacker76

Oh, and if you think FEMA would have worked better under Clinton you don't know how the federal government works. Those people keep those jobs for a lot longer than one administration. It would have been the same failure no matter who was president. We should have sent Haliburton in and told the feds to get the hell out of the way.

Originally Posted by quacker76

There is nothing logical about socialized medicine. The problem is there are not enough market forces in play, not too many. The Canadian and British systems are a complete disaster.

Originally Posted by quacker76

Perhaps we needed someone to rock the boat after 911? I think so.
Oh, and I am also 31, and I think given the circumstances, we are better off now than we ever have been in my lifetime.

Originally Posted by CowboyTed

I refer to my more learned college mr. Alan Greenspan. The deficit created under Bush puts any Republican idealogically bankrupt. Bush spent money like a drunken sailor.

Originally Posted by Wlessard

You cannot blame Bush entirely for spending government money. The Congress has a lot to do with it as well.

Originally Posted by quacker76

This is so ridiculous I don't even know where to start. The tax cuts DID RAISE TAX REVENUE. Yes, spending went up too, but tax revenue is higher than before the tax cuts. You libs hate this because it kills your sadist approach to taxing the rich.

Originally Posted by quacker76

Just managed to say 911 and Saddam in every sentence they could be fore the war so that 70% of the people belived there was a link. That just dishonest.
Really? Could you quote ONE of these sentences?
I refer to my more learned college mr. Alan Greenspan. The deficit created under Bush puts any Republican idealogically bankrupt. Bush spent money like a drunken sailor.
That does not refute the argument that the economy is doing well. I would like to see much less spending, but as a percentage of GDP spending really isn't any higher than in the past.
Nearly every independent full count afterwards made Al Gore the winner.

Really? Thats news to me. Could you refer me to ONE of these independent counts?

US SC over stepped its bonderies and ignored the consitution. It will in the fullness of time be one of the US's deepest embarassments. A full recount of Florida votes was dicated by the Floridian Consitution, this was ignored.
A full recount was never the issue. Bush won- get over it.
We will never know, that's the beauty of the system. But Nixon comes to mind...
So the absence of evidence is the evidence? Wow

Are you going to try and blame the FEMA response on Clinton. Are you serious... Bush was the one sat on his hands, refused international help...
No, thats not what I said. My point was this system was in place long before he was around. Bush expected bureaucrats to do their jobs- thats where he went wrong.
The US system is ranked 36th in the world. France is ranked 1st in the world. Canada is 30th and UK 18th. The US spends as much public money on health as almost France does in total. Actually the US spends 3rd most in the world in public money alone. this money could pay for Universail Heathcare coverage easily if spent properly at all. Public health care is easily more efficent than private healthcare. While all countries grabble with healthcare, the model which every country runs from is the US one. There is very little defense to how the US system is organised, the US goverment collects enough money from people to offer a 1st class service if it looked towards the french model. This doesn't outlaw private insurance, it just replaces the need for it.

You don't understand the basic laws of economics. Universal health care automatically creates a shortage because there is unlimited demand. Thats why cancer patients have to wait a month to see an oncologist in Canada. Thats why illegal, but totally necessary private clinics are popping up everywhere in Canada. Thats why Canadians come to the US to get surgery. Thats why many Canadians have to get on a waiting list just to get a permanent family doctor. Their system is a joke. Our system needs more market forces in play, not less.
there is a new invention- its called a spell checker
Health System Ranking

Originally Posted by MattLarson

The dot-com bubble exploded and the "surplus" (which never existed except on paper) evaporated.

Matt

Originally Posted by goober

The same Republican congress that produced record surpluses with Clinton in the White House, produced record deficits with Bush in the White House.

What changed?

Originally Posted by iamwhatiseem

In all honesty - is there anyone left on this forum who still believes Bush is a good President?
I say this, because there are so many other things to talk about than "Bush=Bad" threads...I don't think anyone disagrees that this is, generally speaking - correct.
He sucks.
Specific threads on specific policies are good...generalized bashing is preaching to the choir.