What exactly are the criteria for victory?

There is no victory in a war without cause. No victory in a war based on a lie. Only failure - We continue to build on the failure known as Iraq, that mirrors another failure we are responsible for, that one is called Israel.

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Well, the only thing quite great is the fact that the American System somehow survives such madman/idiots somehow with only a little harm.

The only Empire that had the same ability was the Roman Empire...

Germany usually collapsed as soon as one madman came to power
Twice in 50 Years must be some kind of a record

Anyways...
I think it would be save to say that Iraq is a total failure already.
And I don't mean that there is no hope in defeating the insurgency (though it's little)... but it reminds me of "Operation successful - patient dead"

Iraq endured so much suffering since 2003 that it is disgusting to talk about an American success.... 15% of the population became refugees, whole cities got destroyed, the infrastructure is in a horible condition, criminal gangs controll the public live, education is on a horrible level, food and gasoline shortages rock the country...

This even means that democracy has such a horrible taste now, that it is not very apealing there... It will just take a charismatic personality talking about the good old days of Security and Organisation and the current system is gone...

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There is the saying that "the leader is what the people deserves". But even if there are quite many things that I want to change in Americans, I think that the people are not as awfull. There is a long tradition in US that people believe that whatever USA does is the best in the world - this is a British heritage (as they say the same in EU even if they belong to the bottommost EU countries).

The problem is the US political system - complete lack of democracy. In presidential elections there are two options and both candidates should have blessing from the neocon hawks / military and oil industrial complex. If some candidate wants to get rid of this, he will be dead. Therefore, whoever will be elected, will be the one selected - exactly like in Soviet Union - the one supported by the shadow government. In Russia they have understood this and want to change the system - in USA people do not even understand theis own situation.

I am about to see my breakfast for the second time today...

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We few, we happy few, we band of brothers;
For he to-day that sheds his blood with me
Shall be my brother; be he ne'er so vile....

[quote=ViPER;1128211]There is no victory in a war without cause. No victory in a war based on a lie. Only failure - We continue to build on the failure known as Iraq, that mirrors another failure we are responsible for, that one is called Israel.[/QUOTE]

now who was it that created the jewish state?

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Are you a spineless slave to political correctness?

[quote=chassisman;1128732]I don't think the creation was as important as the unlimited support provided by the superpower US, allowing Israel to ignore all sanctions by the body that created it including its original borders.

That staterment does not seem to be true.

The Jobs and Growth Act of 2003 appears to have increased revenue despite the devastating suprise attack on the US economy on 9/11/2001.





The Jobs and Growth Act of 2003

Lowering tax rates increased tax revenue. This indicates that tax rates were too high before 2003 and needed to be cut to get to the optimal level on the Laffer Curve

Bush is a great president for too many reasons to list.

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... ..................
We the People of the United States, in Order to form a more perfect Union, establish Justice, insure domestic Tranquility, provide for the common defence, promote the general Welfare, and secure the Blessings of Liberty to ourselves and our Posterity, do ordain and establish this Constitution for the United States of America.

There's always going to be a few that just don't get it...

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So many cowards.

You know who you are.

Now that Iraq has not been shown to have WMD and we have shown the people what to do and how to di it (much like a parent does for a child) it is time to withdraw troops, or at least start the process. We in the USA can't hand-hold other countries forever. We have our own people to worry about, our own economy, poor, recession, etc, etc, etc. There has to be a limit to how much we can do for others, and gas proces have only become more negatively affected due to the war. I agree with one thing in the presidential race at this point (regardless of who becomes president), it's time for CHANGE!

Now that Iraq has not been shown to have WMD and we have shown the people what to do and how to do it (much like a parent does for a child) it is time to withdraw troops, or at least start the process. We in the USA can't hand-hold other countries forever. We have our own people to worry about, our own economy, poor, recession, etc, etc, etc. There has to be a limit to how much we can do for others, and gas proces have only become more negatively affected due to the war. I agree with one thing in the presidential race at this point (regardless of who becomes president), it's time for CHANGE!

I 'd honestly try and give you a lesson in Macroeconomics which I have did in University but I feel it would be wasted. Here's a tip: Look at National Deficit figures over GDP would be a start.. Also look at real wages

FT.com / World - US real wages fall at fastest rate in 14 years

The US is heavilly in debt as a result of no fisical respounsibility in the last 7 years...

Actually when was the last time the US lowered taxes and went to war...

You must be feeling like a right twat now

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'They'd rather be alive than free, I guess. Poor dumb bastards.' Private Eightball - Full Metal Jacket

The art of war is of vital importance to the State. It is a matter of life and death, a road either to safety or to ruin. Hence it is a subject of inquiry which can on no account be neglected
- Sun Tzu, the Art of War

Mrs,

I'm sure the people of Iraq wish the US had never done ANYTHING for their government, from arming it to removing it

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'They'd rather be alive than free, I guess. Poor dumb bastards.' Private Eightball - Full Metal Jacket

The art of war is of vital importance to the State. It is a matter of life and death, a road either to safety or to ruin. Hence it is a subject of inquiry which can on no account be neglected
- Sun Tzu, the Art of War

Bookend to Clinton is right. They are both arses.