I didn't say I'd post them, I was simply answering your question regarding how I would "even know there are a thousand different ways to run an election." If you've ever taken a course in statistics, you would likely know that in order to calculate all possible combinations that can be created with a set number of objects by rearranging them, all that is required is a mathematical calculation. You don't actually have to list them out.

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If a neocon whines about big government wealth redistribution, just ask him what he thinks about the portion of that big government that sends aid to Israel.

Or, I could do what you do, and just make up stupid statistics that I hope everyone believes without basis...

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Obama's New "57 State Patriotic Pin":




Sayeth John Drake - 10/13/08: "OK, you're right, I admit to LYING"

What statistics have I made up that I did not prove or back up?

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If a neocon whines about big government wealth redistribution, just ask him what he thinks about the portion of that big government that sends aid to Israel.

Your stupid comment about there being 1,000 different ways to run an election.

Not that I ever actually expected you to back that statement up...

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Obama's New "57 State Patriotic Pin":




Sayeth John Drake - 10/13/08: "OK, you're right, I admit to LYING"

I did prove that there were at least 1,000, if not more, ways to run an election, and I proved it using statistics/calculations. Perhaps you should try reading my posts. Might save some wear on your keyboard.

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If a neocon whines about big government wealth redistribution, just ask him what he thinks about the portion of that big government that sends aid to Israel.

You proved nothing.

Get over yourself...

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Obama's New "57 State Patriotic Pin":




Sayeth John Drake - 10/13/08: "OK, you're right, I admit to LYING"

It's right there, Steve. The proof that you asked for. Why aren't you accepting it even though you asked for it?

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If a neocon whines about big government wealth redistribution, just ask him what he thinks about the portion of that big government that sends aid to Israel.

Right where?

I saw no list, and I don't trust you as far as I could throw you when it comes to anything even resembling accurate "statistics"...

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Obama's New "57 State Patriotic Pin":




Sayeth John Drake - 10/13/08: "OK, you're right, I admit to LYING"

Steve, you're just being obstinant - Just because Slon makes idiotic posts with some frequency doesn't mean they're all idiotic. Slon has actually given proof there are almost innumerable ways of running an election, despite your ignorant arguements to the contrary. (Ignorant not intended as an insult, simply as a more accurate synonym to 'uninformed'.) Just multiply 50*49*48*47*46*45*44*... until your calculator fills up or you get the idea. I stopped at 40, which gave me about a Quintillion.

However, his original comment was that there must be a thousand Better ways to run an election. And while my first thought is he's probably a bit high in the actual number, the general intent of his comment is correct. (And no, if one wanted to take the comment completely literally, he doesn't have to know all thousand of them for it to be true.)

Let's see... eliminate gerrymandering, improve ballot access, improve anti-tampering security, improve contribution transparancy, reform primary procedures - If there are half a dozen good ways to implement each of these, and implementing any combination of those would be an improvement, there are over 7K combinations, and Slon is correct in his earlier assertion. The half-dozen guess may be high, but then I may have missed a reform or two, so it all comes out in the wash that Slon was generally correct.


Actually, so long as there are Powerful politicians... If a box of money can't but a box's worth of regulatory, legislative, or procedural consideration, the boxes will stop coming. But again, expecting anything will materially change the situation any time soon is still naive.


I was about to assert above that giving the politicians too much power was the root source of the problem, but Slon's correct, since it was the voters who allowed the politicians to get away with continually expanding and abusing their power 'til we got to where we are today.

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Today's forecast: Government corruption.

Tomorrow's forecast: 100% chance of more 'politics as usual'

Maybe it's finally time to vote Libertarian

Yep, our liberty is slowly being etched away with every swing of the democrat/republican pendulum, but I believe it is still possible, if voters wised up, to get a decent libertarian in office. Thus, at this point, stupid voters are what keep the US in such a sad state, not necessarily authoritarian politicians. They may EXPLOIT that weakness in the voters, but it is still ultimately the voters' fault.

I realize that I hold many controversial positions, but there are some that are totally logical, where the only opposition that exists is nonetheless totally irrational, illogical and emotional. There is simply no logical reason, for instance, to punish recreational drug users, yet it remains a major drain on tax money (through enforcement and jails), not to mention being intrusive. However, politicians exploit voter stupidity by launching expensive campaigns, working simply to keep themselves in power.

I like to think of it like a drug argument. Our laws tend to work to eliminate supply for the drug. But where there is demand, there will be supply, almost certainly. Likewise, where there is a demand for manipulative politicians, there they will appear to trick the stupid voters. No matter how many times you impeach them, investigate them and deride them, they will keep coming. Eliminate demand by at least having a not-so-stupid populace, and you will likely get rid of the problem.

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If a neocon whines about big government wealth redistribution, just ask him what he thinks about the portion of that big government that sends aid to Israel.

Well Slon, considering the multiple questions of the vulnerabitity of recent national election results to tampering, I'm less inclined to lay the blame at the feet of "the voters," and more inclined to question the integrity of those who have gotten the benefits of the "problem." But that's just me.

When we get real, honest, transparent, fully verifiable elections and vote counts, perhaps we can revisit where "the blame" lies.

Are you trying to say that if the voters were counted more accurately, that someone other than Kerry or Bush would have won?

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If a neocon whines about big government wealth redistribution, just ask him what he thinks about the portion of that big government that sends aid to Israel.

I'm not "trying to say" what you seem to want to argue with. What I am saying is that if we cannot trust and prove beyond doubt the results of the election process, the actions and policies taken by the benefactors of that flawed process, are souly responsible for the problems they create, not "the voters."

It doesn't matter how accurately they were counted if counting them more accurately would yield the same result.

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If a neocon whines about big government wealth redistribution, just ask him what he thinks about the portion of that big government that sends aid to Israel.

1. Public financing of campaigns
2. Make participation in debates a requirement for public office
3. FCC mandated free airtime for debates (the airwaves belong to the people)
4. Eliminate riders and earmarks, a bill can only contain legislation related to its title
5. Eliminate Congressional pensions
6. Federalize standards for general elections
7. Make election day a national holliday

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Big Number of 2008
8,217,246
Obama's Margin of Victory

"Shake off all the fears of servile prejudices, under which weak minds are servilely crouched. Fix reason firmly in her seat, and call on her tribunal for every fact, every opinion. Question with boldness even the existence of a God; because, if there be one, he must more approve of the homage of reason than that of blindfolded fear."

-Thomas Jefferson