"Actively against facism"? I haven't seen his stance on Franco or Mussolini, so I'm going to have to ask what, exactly, you mean by this, what you think Fascism is, and why opposing it makes someone 'conservative'?

And, regarding "religiously traditional", why does that make someone politically 'conservative'? In America today, the religiously traditional seem most interested in creating constitutional amendments based on their particular beliefs. Generally, people seeking rather radical methodology for changing the government are not considered 'conservative'.

He is a compassionate conservative in that while he beleives in smaller govt and individual freedom, he beleives govt can be used as a tool to help people.

A lot of that is from the "Christian Right", who don't really fit the mold of traditional Republican 'conservatism'. That is, a lot of these voters favor liberal foreign policies that include nation-building, various entitlement programs mixed up with religion, amending the constitution instead of leaving things up to the states, regulating "decency", censorship, various safety nanny-state laws, etc.

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"Government big enough to supply everything you need is big enough to take everything you have... The course of history shows that as a government grows, liberty decreases."

-Thomas Jefferson

Fair enough. We might be subject to ballooning domestic spending, pie in the sky nation building, abridgment of civil liberties, and various other nanny-state measures.

Oh, wait...

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"Government big enough to supply everything you need is big enough to take everything you have... The course of history shows that as a government grows, liberty decreases."

-Thomas Jefferson

See you're the one exception to the rule Doc, you oppose Bush on many issues but keep labelling those positions as anything other than conservatism, a lot of folks would assume you're ashamed that the positions you hold would be described as liberal.

And yeah sure spending is high but taxes are low, we may have to nation build but only because we can't seize land and crusade, we do have broad ranging goverment powers, technically your definitions are correct. But then again look at the social issues, opposition to gay marriage and abortion, no giving federal funding to more kooky scientists to explore Global warming myths and go on about stem cells, see he reduces spending on what he wants and lets the rest go by. Look at his SC picks. Look at the way he has executedfolks as governor etc etc.

Nah. On wedge issues, I would say Bush fits the bill of conservative and myself as liberal, inasmuch as I care about things like abortion, gay marriage, etc. He's also toed the traditional line regarding taxation, which I'm fine with (though not in the face of spending like a drunken Ted Kennedy at the Emperor's Club )

I'm not applying my standards to Dubya, but rather those of the GOP itself over the last thirty or forty years. I don't care whether he's liberal or conservative - I think he's incompetent, whichever way he's branded. What I can say is that he's sold out the GOP on most of the issues that I find their traditional platform appealing (minimized foreign intervention, fiscal responsibility, protection of civil liberties, minimized government etc).

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"Government big enough to supply everything you need is big enough to take everything you have... The course of history shows that as a government grows, liberty decreases."

-Thomas Jefferson

How's overturning Roe v Wade coming along? How about a federal ruling banning gay marriage?

Or does the unreachable carrot continue to be dangled in front of "values voters"?

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"Government big enough to supply everything you need is big enough to take everything you have... The course of history shows that as a government grows, liberty decreases."

-Thomas Jefferson

Wow....I am never ceased to be amazed the levels of absurdity one side goes to toss rocks at the other....this thread belongs in the USPOL hall of fame.

He sold out the GOP? They sold him out by requiring to take home so much pork so he could continue the war. He bought them over which is about right.

Anyway he instrumented the biggest tax cuts in history, the fastest boots on the groun military invasion in history, the largest goverment powers in history, so whichever way he does do things in record breaking ways.

Greatest ever popular vote turn out, first President to lose majority vote in 2 party system, apparent largest debt and deficit in history etc etc.

Records galore, a legacy of glory.

Oh, on the subject of the OP, the comparison makes no sense. You're comparing policy disagreement with Bush/Cheney to the blatant commission of a crime with Spitzer. You might find Bush/Cheney's actions to be morally repugnant and think they ought to be criminal, but that's really not relevant. No doubt you'd see Bush/Cheney's resignation as well if they were caught with their pants around their ankles in front of women of ill repute

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"Government big enough to supply everything you need is big enough to take everything you have... The course of history shows that as a government grows, liberty decreases."

-Thomas Jefferson

Roe is one vote away from being overturned imo, i wonder if Bush could get Olsen confirmed if Kennedy left in Jun, or possibly JPS though Kennedy does wanna go on a Republicans watch.

As for the gay marriage ammendment, well every state in union is outlawing it and judges are for the most part upholding so all we need to do is wait for the right majorities in Congress to ram it home.

Nah eventually it'll be sorted out and conservativeswill have another issue to gather steam about, stem cells and cloning, give it time.

Records to be sure, but I'm relatively confident that they'll be ignominious as judged by history.

And, your second paragraph is hardly helping his conservative street cred. What do you think a 70's/80's, traditional conservative would have to say about someone who was the "fastest" to go adventuring expensively in other countries, was described with "largest" and "government" in the same sentence, and attributed records in these traditionally "liberal" pursuits to boot?

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"Government big enough to supply everything you need is big enough to take everything you have... The course of history shows that as a government grows, liberty decreases."

-Thomas Jefferson

Seriously if Cheney punched you in the face you'd sure well feel it alot more than some vitriolic tirade against the administration.

He is a con. in the sense that there was no REAL con. out there and he picked up the crown left behind...as Americano alludes, he fooled me, not on EVERY issue, but on many of them, so all in all, I am left grudgingly calling a con. but not my idea of a con. if I had to paint one. Unlike others, I doubled down and voted for him in 04.....I probably still would, looking at the alternative, lets say I saw him doing less damage to the country than kerry....and there ya go. I think of Buckely though I don't agree with every tenet he holds, agree with him on the whole.

Apparently my views of conservatism and others diverge then.....to each his own.....

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No individual can plan his own existence in their view.

So the state planners must arrogate to themselves the right to manipulate any sector of the economic system if the good of “society” or the “general welfare” is paramount.

Ipso- if the rights of the individual get in the way, the rights of the individual must be sublimated.

The Road to Serfdom
FA Hayek (interpretation)


Mortgage Backed Security survivor

Pretty much and i've always said as more and more time goes on so will the liberalism of the world, so you instrument the philosophical ideology of whatever you want and fit it into the moving and progressing era.

I think isolationsism is retarded, possibly as stupid as it gets and like i said, we can't crusade so nation building is the way to go. Liberal policy i agree, but i'll take it.

Well it depends on that part btw, if nobody else rallies out 65 million folks in the next hundred years factoring in increases in population i'm sure history will remember this last election in 04 for many years to come.

All that's important to Bush is his legacy and how history will judge him and i fully expect him to go down as oneof the true greats of all time given enough time once he leaves office.