Originally Posted by Traveler

Without you none of this would be possible Sam, so thank you.

Nobody else will keep bashing Bush and starting these threads, but you will.

Originally Posted by Jason Marcel

What do you do about it? You vote against the guy! And you make friends with as many non-political people that you can and you help to make them aware of the world around them.

And you book time on community access tv or campus radio stations and you get the word out. And you defend real American values clearly and directly and proudly. And you change people's minds. You write letters and start petitions. You canvas door to door. You stand on the street with an open and warm face ready to talk to anybody about the one you're campaigning for, and why.

And you just keep talking about real American values. You declare with an utmost confidence mixed with sincerity that patriotism can't be measured in flagpins.

You mention that torture is not American. And that interrogators from all over the world, specialists, psychologists, doctors, and law enforcement officials with any good sense will tell you that you can get much, much more out of someone by projecting calm, by seeming curious and open, by understanding the virtue of patience and good listening. And you say that torture only makes a detainee tell you what they think you want to hear and that at it's core, torture is meant to instill terror in an individual.

And you defend the good values big and strong and loud in every avenue possible.
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How else can I put this? My uncle's a dick. I disagree with him on everything. But on top of that, I don't like the way he treats his wife. He's not a brute; he's just not.....sensitive. I see them once a year at Thanksgiving. Now, I live in a free country, so I suppose I could say whatever I want whenever I want, but every year, I'm his guest, because that's the agreement I made when I came to sit at his table. And every year, by the grace of God go we, when he says a little prayer before dinner I think "he's such a jerkoff....but he always hits a nice warm tone when he says grace.....fucker". And for at least one visit every year, I just let it go without saying that I think he's a dick.

It's kinda like that.

Presidents are who they are, but sometimes they aren't who they are, and they're the figurehead of a nation, welcoming new citizens here on behalf of us all. Give the Prez a moment. Protest his motorcade, whatever. But if you decide you're going to be in an audience, remember what Bill Maher said, "You're in the AUDIENCE.........AUDIENCE!!!....comes from the Latin word, meaning, 'to LISTEN'."

America could do with some good listeners. Just because George W. hasn't been a good one doesn't mean you have to be either.

Originally Posted by drgoodtrips

I don't think anyone you're talking to really believes that. It's hard to seriously gauge any poster whose primary amusement from the site is attempting to offend people's sensibilities and so such a person is probably best ignored. The only person I see making a serious point is Sam, and perhaps Ajax, to a lesser extent.

Originally Posted by solletica

And that point has already been made and refuted in the case of this protest. It was completely inappropriate for Bush to present a false impression of an idyllic America based on "freedom of speech" in a ceremony about being an American,

when the reality (i. e. protesters being forced out for speaking their mind) is what the new citizens should've seen.

The argument for common courtesy can be made in proceedings where the protesters' concerns have absolutely no relevance to the ceremony, i. e. a private funeral or B-day party, but, as was stated above, that's not the case here, and trying to equate the two amounts to nothing more than presenting a false analogy

which posters like me can easily expose, making those who do it appear, well, childish.



Indeed

Originally Posted by ViolaLee

He is the president and this is a thread about him on a political discussion board.



Actually the Bush defenders are trying to make this into a thread about Clinton. No surprise there!

Originally Posted by Mrs. M

I'm truly surprised at you! The only point Sam makes is that it's perfectly okay to act like an asshole and disrupt a meaningful ceremony because you hate the President. I surely can't believe that you are in the same category as she, sollectica and Ajax!

Originally Posted by Mrs. M

I'm truly surprised at you! The only point Sam makes is that it's perfectly okay to act like an asshole and disrupt a meaningful ceremony because you hate the President. I surely can't believe that you are in the same category as she, sollectica and Ajax!

Originally Posted by Mrs. M

Refuted? Dream on cupcake...

BTW, only an asshole would disrupt someone else's ceremony out of hatred for the speaker.

Originally Posted by Mrs. M

I'm not defending Bush in no way, shape or form so get that out of your silly, little head. I AM defending the attendants of special ceremonies and think that it's very rude for assholes to disrupt them. Of course, I understand that can't comprehend that....

Originally Posted by Traveler

He's being sarcastic, he thinks Sam's and Ajax's points are the silliest of them all.

Originally Posted by Traveler

I may be wrong (or maybe shouldn't have said it) but i assume its to stop you from crying foul that the comment he made about ignoring folks was aimed at you, either way he can clarify it for himself.

Originally Posted by Traveler

I'm not twisting anything, not intentionally anyway.

If he truly meant what he said then i apologise (to him) (sorry if i put you in an akward position Doc).

Originally Posted by ViolaLee

How many times will you call us assholes on this thread? Here's three in a row, only on this page. There must be at least 10 others. You've said it in just about every post on this thread.