Then the vast, vast majority of MDs in this country are idiots, by your standard, since most of them are too busy working for a living. You know, treating patients? Perhaps you've heard of that?Please do pardon my frankness, but you don't know what the fuck you're talking about.And this is relevant exactly how?I grew up in a medical family (father, sister, uncle). I know innumerable doctors. I'm dating a doctor. Not one of them, although all specialists, have a PhD, nor do they need or desire one. After one begin's a practise, there is simply no use for it, and, even if one had one, it's no guarantee that it would be relevant or applicable to daily use.

Why do you insist on talking about this about which you are so clearly, painfully ignorant?

Solletica, your belief that a physician must have a Ph.D. to be a specialist is based on nothing in the real world. It's flatly wrong (that would, of course mean it is inaccurate).

I, for one, don't run from you; but do usually ignore your input. But when I feel like taking an intellectual vacation (the weekends, for example), I engage you on the forum.

Hon, ain't nobody gonna be running from you! If all you post is accuracies, please, by all means, back up your statement that specialists without Ph. D.'s aren't real doctors....

We'll wait patiently while you search...

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"Life should NOT be a journey to the grave with the intention of arriving safely in an attractive and well preserved body, but rather to skid in sideways - Chardonnay in one hand - chocolate in the other - body thoroughly used up, totally worn out, and screaming "WOO HOO, What a Ride!"

True, but there's no guarantee that a doctor has been published if he/she doesn't have a Ph. D., right?

Correct--I'm sure there are several wonderful, ground-breaking physicians who have no doctorate (i. e. Jonas Salk), just as there are several ground-breaking contributors to technology who have no college degree at all (Steve Jobs, for example)

However, a patient typically doesn't have time to research in depth the career background of the person he/she is seeing. If a doctor w/no Ph. D. has built a public reputation as a researcher or someone who is known to have published, then everyone will know about it.

But when a patient has to see a specialist quickly, and has nothing else to draw on initially except the doctor's degree credentials, then just having an M. D. won't cut it. And this is the case most of the times--the patient is generally unacquainted w/the specialist's reputation.

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No, no, no cupcake!!! Please PROVE to us that a specialist without a Ph. D. isn't a real doctor or else admit you posted an inaccuracy.

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"Life should NOT be a journey to the grave with the intention of arriving safely in an attractive and well preserved body, but rather to skid in sideways - Chardonnay in one hand - chocolate in the other - body thoroughly used up, totally worn out, and screaming "WOO HOO, What a Ride!"

You're confusing the legal definition of a medical specialist (anyone who has at least an M. D.) w/a doctor that actually might be of help (i. e. someone w/an extensive publication history or a track record of original research or an innovator).

Alas, I'll admit that I made a generalization here, in the sense that I didn't take into account those who have built a reputation as a publisher or as a developer of ground-breaking procedures who do not have Ph. Ds. There are these, and they definitely qualify as real doctors.

However, that's a rare exception. In most cases, when a patient has to see a specialist for treatment, the only thing the patient has to judge the doctor's qualifications initially is the degree credentials. If you didn't know anything else about the doctor, it would be dumb to see a specialist w/no Ph. D.

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I've dealt with many specialists in not only my nursing career but also as a patient or as the family member of the patient. I don't know for sure, but I'd be willing to bet that few, if any, had a Ph. D. and yet, they were real doctors. Admit it, you have absolutely NOTHING to back up your bullshit!

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"Life should NOT be a journey to the grave with the intention of arriving safely in an attractive and well preserved body, but rather to skid in sideways - Chardonnay in one hand - chocolate in the other - body thoroughly used up, totally worn out, and screaming "WOO HOO, What a Ride!"

the PhD areguments are, of course, nonsense.

one thing it seems many SGs do have in the resume is work/education in public health which Gupta does not seem to have done.

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Socialism doesn't create a rising tide that lifts all boats. It drains the lake and teaches the boat riders not to help themselves by rowing.

Jesus loves you, allah wants you dead

"Every government interference in the economy consists of giving an unearned benefit, extorted by force, to some men at the expense of others."

Ayn Rand

Again, you offer zero support for anything in your last, bolded paragraph. Cite some statistics for specialist MD's w/and w/out PhD and let the data fall where it will, or stop embarassing yourself.

If they're practicing as specialists (as opposed to merely primary care), and have no publications in peer-reviewed journals or no track record of any original R&D, then they are not real doctors (the fact that they're legally allowed to practice is irrelevant). No exceptions.

Nothing compares to the bull!@#$ of being allowed to practice a specialty with nothing more than an M. D. and residency/internship experience.

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I think its best to judge a specialist on performance, not alphabet soup behind the name on the shingle. Them that can, do....

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Socialism doesn't create a rising tide that lifts all boats. It drains the lake and teaches the boat riders not to help themselves by rowing.

Jesus loves you, allah wants you dead

"Every government interference in the economy consists of giving an unearned benefit, extorted by force, to some men at the expense of others."

Ayn Rand

Please, for entertainment value, back your shit up or admit you don't have a fucking clue as to what you're saying!!!

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"Life should NOT be a journey to the grave with the intention of arriving safely in an attractive and well preserved body, but rather to skid in sideways - Chardonnay in one hand - chocolate in the other - body thoroughly used up, totally worn out, and screaming "WOO HOO, What a Ride!"

No hope whatsoever that you would post something accurate. You did come close, though; such a tease.

Giant Space Leprechauns aren't really Giant Space Leprechauns until and unless they have the Lucky Charms Seal of Approval! No exceptions!

Agreed. That's always the best way. However, it's idealistic to think every patient has the time to research his/her chosen physician's background to the necessary extent.

And the way HMOs, PPOs, etc. are setup, the patient mostly doesn't have a choice who he/she can see. An in-network physician must be picked, even if the patient has no knowledge of the background of that physician. The era of the pre-selected trusted family doctor is gone.

When going in to see a specialist blind, the Ph. D. from an acclaimed U at least tells the patient "hey, this doctor can think. He/she has the ability to formulate ideas and isn't a dumb robot that just memorizes facts." But that's only a start point. A Ph. D. is by no means a guarantee that the holder is a real doctor.

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